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Old 06-04-2007, 11:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
D2k
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Vehicle: 05 A6 3.2Q, 07 A4 2.0T S-Line
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All season tires vs. summer tires

Hey guys, I'm currently running Yoko ES100's but am thinking of my next set of tires (maybe in another 12,000-15,000 miles).

My alignment shop highly recommended Michellin PS2's. He says they reduce the tramlining effect the most compared to any other tire and from what I've read they are arguably one of the best tires money can buy (also one of the most expensive).

I live in WA state so the weather here in the winter is usually pretty mild (low 40's sometimes high 30's at worst). But there are a couple of weeks where it will get down to freezing and sometimes we can get some snow. When we get a significant amount of snow it will typically go unplowed for the first day or two because we do not have the manpower to clear the streets like other states in the snowbelt do since we are not used to snowy winters at all. We also do not use salt here, just sand and some de-icer solution (which will get overwhelmed if it snows hard enough).

Anyways, I was considering an all-season tire next time around. Perhaps the Michellin A/S or the Yoko Advan S4 (or any of the other ones recommended in the tire forum). My worry though is my mechanic told me an all-season tire will perform just as bad as a summer tire in snow and he said I might be wasting my money. He said if I wanted to drive in snow then I should get a separate set of snow tires. I figure if I had to drive in snow I would just drive in light snow (say 1" maybe, 2" tops) but more likely on roads where there was snow but where you could still see the road (e.g. roads that have been driven on by other cars). In the event of heavy snow my other car has AWD so I would take that but it would be nice to know that I could take the CLK out if I really had to. I'm not too keen on having a separate set of snow/summer tires though. Since it rarely drops below freezing here I'm not certain if I can take advantage of the compound differences between a winter tire vs. an all-season tire.

Do all-season tires wear less than summer tires? They probably won't grip as well in the summer but I can't say I push the car to the limits quite often.

Are all-season tires quieter or noisier than summer tires? TBH, I can't tell if a tire is noisy or not. I figure all the noise is road noise and dependent on the surface.

Sorry for all the writing!
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Old 06-05-2007, 05:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm not sure I can answer all of your questions, but I can answer one thing. Living in IL and still generally having to use my car in the winter, I thought the same thing. I had Pirelli summer tires or something on there (I can't remember exactly what they were at the moment) and they sucked in the snow. I figured if I got some all seasons then I'd at least get some traction in the snow vs. the zero traction I was getting with the summer tires. It made absolutely no difference in my opinion. I still got just as bad of traction in the snow. I went with the Hankook Ventus V4 as they say they're a high performance all season with "twice the winter performance than the typical summer tire". I really have no complaints about their price, performance in general or noise but next time I'll probably just go with the regular performance tires. I hope that helped a little.
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Old 06-05-2007, 10:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
D2k
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That does help. How much snow were you trying to drive in? Unplowed?
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Old 06-05-2007, 04:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I've now driven in just a light dusting to a few inches when I've gotten caught both plowed and unplowed. It's not fun at all in any kind of snow.
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Old 06-05-2007, 10:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Dayum. Ok good to know. You may have just saved me from wasting $$$ on all seasons.

Anyone know if they wear less? That would be the 2nd reason for getting them (being able to drive in the snow was the first). Handling isn't as high on the list since I know you can't compare them to a summer tire.
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Check the UTQG Treadwear Grade

Your question and others you should ask are best answered by this page at the TireRack.com website: Tire Tech - Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Standards

Basically you should be looking at the Uniform Tire Quality Grade Standards (UTQG) Treadwear Grade for the tire. Each tire will have one. What you will notice is that treadwear and traction may not go hand in hand. Generally, the softer the tire the less treadwear you will get.

Summary:
The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's (NHTSA) Uniform Tire Quality Grade Standards (UTQG) were originated to provide consumers with useful information to help them purchase tires based on their relative treadwear, traction and temperature capabilities. While it is required by law for most passenger car tires sold in the United States, it is not required for deep treaded light truck tires or winter tires.

When looking at UTQG ratings it is important to realize that the Department of Transportation does not conduct the tests. The grades are assigned by the tire manufacturers based on their test results or those conducted by an independent testing company they have hired. The NHTSA has the right to inspect the tire manufacturer's data and can fine them if inconsistencies are found. While most new tire lines have their grades established when they are introduced, they are allowed a 6-month grace period to allow the tire manufacturer to test actual production tires. Once a grade is assigned it must be branded on the tire's upper sidewall and printed on its label.

Unfortunately, the rating that is of the most interest to consumers is the one that appears to be the least consistent. While the Treadwear Grade was originally intended to be assigned purely scientifically, it has also become a marketing tool used by manufacturers to help position and promote their tires.

Treadwear Grades
UTQG Treadwear Grades are based on actual road use in which the test tire is run in a vehicle convoy along with standardized Course Monitoring Tires. The vehicle repeatedly runs a prescribed 400-mile test loop in West Texas for a total of 7,200 miles. The vehicle can have its alignment set, air pressure checked and tires rotated every 800 miles. The test tire's and the Monitoring Tire's wear are measured during and at the conclusion of the test. The tire manufacturers then assign a Treadwear Grade based on the observed wear rates. The Course Monitoring Tire is assigned a grade and the test tire receives a grade indicating its relative treadwear. A grade of 100 would indicate that the tire tread would last as long as the test tire, 200 would indicate the tread would last twice as long, 300 would indicate three times as long, etc.

The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful.

From a practical perspective, my Eagle F1 DS-D3 tires have a 280 AA A UTQG rating, which translates to a treadwear of 280, Traction Grade of AA (highest) and a temperature grade of A (highest). Basically, if you want a long life of treadwear you should get a tire with the highest UTQG Treadwear Grade you can find, just know this "hard" tire will handle like crap because it will suffer in the traction grade department. By comparison, if you bought the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tire (track tire) the UTQG rating is 80 AA A. This is a very soft tire and would probably only see 4 to 5 full track days if the driver was very good at handling the car.
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Last edited by ashutt : 06-06-2007 at 12:46 PM.
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