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1992 190 vs a 1995 c220

2K views 13 replies 5 participants last post by  Jostep 
#1 ·
I know this is the wrong forum, but has more traffic.

Got a potential candidate for being the next successful rescue. A 1992 190 4 cylinder gas with a bad head gasket.

So...I know the c220 pretty well, was wondering what the differences are, mainly brakes, suspension, build quality. Some research shows the 190 to be almost 1000 lbs less, smaller in size, obviously lower performance. But is it as simple to repair as the 220 was? Checking now for parts availability.

Thought some of you might have first hand experience with the little guy.
 
#2 ·
Here's the biggie.
W201's start off in second gear. The transmissions gear ratios are set for more conservative driving.
Single OHC vs DOHC - M111 engines are peppy compared to the old M102
If you can put up with these then W201's are a good car. Same say better put together than the W202
 
#3 ·
Thank you for the reply, I know my question was vague.

The transmission really doesn't bother me, but that is significant difference. I know as you start changing platforms things get very different.

Did some research, I was really looking for another 220 or 280, but this one seems to have a great interior, average body, needs a bit of motor work but that isn't a big deal...it runs, moves etc...and it's cheap...like a decent night on the town cheap. I do not want to sacrifice the handling that the c220 has, and was wondering if it had the same solid feel and handling.

Did find out that it has the 5 link rear, 4 wheel discs, basically all the suspension of the 202...and 500 series brakes are literally plug and play... it's also much lighter...Patman knows where I'm going with this...:grin

So it would be a fair comparison to say it's a lighter/smaller/slower w202....which is perfect. Just need to see if it has decent parts support from the usual vendors. And it's a 190E...1992 model. haven't seen it in person yet, just wanted to find out more before I waste time, or discovered a drum braked solid axle toad with no parts available.
 
#8 ·
'92-93 6cyl W201s start in first gear. Dunno if this applies to the M102 models as well.
Applies to M102's also


Patman1 : I wouldn't say the W201 was better built than the W202, it was just simpler and thus had less stuff that could break down.
I wouldn't say that the KE system was simpler than the later injection/ignition systems :angel
 
#5 ·
I wouldn't say the W201 was better built than the W202, it was just simpler and thus had less stuff that could break down. With that logic, we should all be driving in old ass diesel trucks. The next point is, there is simply much less support for the W201 from both the aftermarkets and the OE suppliers. There are far fewer W201s on the road than W202s, and the W202 has a niche market with the AMGs, so there will always be support for this chassis. Furthermore, a lot of parts from the W202 were carried from older chassis' (like the front suspension which is straight off a W140) which still have a high number of cars on the road, and a lot of the parts made on/for the W202 and W210 were carried into newer models (The same 5-link suspension is on the W203). The engines also lasted well into the electronics revolution. The M111 started in 1992 and went all the way into 2003 (I think it was even sold in some MY 2005 cars).

I know it's already much easier and cheaper to get parts for the W202, and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future. The W201 is already starting to fall through the cracks.

And finally, who the hell wants to deal with KE-jetronic.
 
#6 ·
Well...it's not so much the availability of parts that concerns me, or the age or lack of current technology, rather does it have the well built "feel." Most important to me was the fact it has the factory capability for 4 wheel disc brakes, 5 link rear, sway bars, and a rigid chassis.

No need or desire to chase an inferior design, but from most accounts, and my research the 202 is an updated 201 chassis. For me, the biggest draw is the reduction in weight, similar classic styling, small size, low insurance, and the long list of other platforms that can "donate" parts as a poor mans upgrade down the road.

All I'm really concerned with is availability of rust repair pieces, trim, headlights etc... most of the power train will be changed. Most of the interior, and a good portion of the suspension and braking will be different...simpler is better in this particular case. And starting off 500 kg lighter is a huge benefit for every aspect. My c43 bastard project is starting officially this winter so this may be the perfect starting point...we can call it the 590EK2...:grin
 
#9 ·
...the 202 is an updated 201 chassis.
The W202 was indeed the replacement of the W201. But it is a much closer relative to the W124 and W140 than it is to the W201. The W201 has too many model-specific parts that it doesn't share with any prior, contemporary or later Mercedes models.
 
#10 ·
Interesting, and I appreciate all the input. Parts were not terrible to find, but def. limited and that will only get worse. Car in question had some known issues with paint condition, head gasket etc...the typical stuff you expect with a "project."

However rust was about eleventybillion times worse than advertised, and the kicker was a previous up close interaction with wildlife... seems the alignment is "off" and no amount of tinkering gets the wheels adjusted to go the same direction....

What appealed to me was the weight of the car is equal to a large lawnmower, and the chassis seemed to have the same design as the 202..however, considering the issues, lack of parts, and generally the much higher cost than a 220/280/230 gonna pass.
 
#11 ·
It's true, the W201 does have a lot of model specific parts, and for that reason it's not economically viable for aftermarkets to maintain support. The W202 on the other hand, was built from the left-over parts pin of the W124 and W140, and does share a lot of stuff with other models. Finding parts is just going to be a lot easier and cheaper (for the non-swapped items).

And yes, KE-Jetronic is a can of worms, but that would've all gone to the trash at Jostep's place.

Best is to find a good W202, it's a shame though that it's nearly impossible. Might have to find something that is acceptable and just fix it up a bit.

Jostep, can I ask a favor? If you find a C230 that you have nothing to do with the engine, send me the crankshaft pretty please?
 
#12 ·
Putting it all down on paper I just need a rolling chassis with a good body, rest is going away. It makes more sense to strip another 202 of usable stuff for my 220, store what I want and part the rest out. Factor in a weak rear subframe, difficult parts issues, and the questionable compatibility with other chassis (cheap brakes upgrade) 201 is not the best starting point.

Damn dyno guys are absolutely foaming at the mouth about the "projects" potential. And absolutely, if I can track down a 230, crank is yours. Trouble is finding a 202 car is becoming a challenge...either they are rusted beyond saving, or are to nice and $$ to cut up and force feed sub 1k worth of awesome. Will be the first MB. On their rollers, I'd like to set the bar high. :devil

Solved the octane issue too... alcohol!!! now to see if megasquirt and an injector package can flow the required volumes as alky needs a ton more GPM.
 
#13 ·
One of My W202's has a failing transmission.
A rebuild will cost more than the car is worth.
So.... I tried to source a good lowish mileage one.
Not only did I have trouble sourcing a low mileage one but had trouble sourcing any decent box at all.
I went the next source, finding a whole donor car with a good transmission but with other issues.
Found a car. Body perfect, engine and transmission good, interior good but with Cat, AC and other small problems. Cost $800.00. Still road licensed for another 6 month.
After carefully checking out the donor the costs to fix it's issues were less than fixings the original cars transmission.:grin

So now I have two cars, the original still with a suss tranny :confused:

The moral of the story? Older cars whether 201 or 202 may end up having a failure which costs more to rectify than the car is worth.
 
#14 ·
Yep, I guess it's really like any object actually...repair vs replacement costs get blurred quickly when you eliminate the easy replacement aspect. It becomes a love affair with sentimental and intrinsic value becoming the justification vs dollars....and I get that too.

Nothing about the 201, 202 models were truly rare except for some obscure editions, even then those are obtainable still, and usually better kept.

So, wrenching and rebuilding the c220 project was a labor of primarily fun and education...teach the youngest about car repair, maintenance, etc...I'll save the touching life lessons and hallmark moments..:grin Bottom line, had a blast, enjoyed the process immensely, wanted to build up something after my own taste. Since the 202 is blessed with a really really well thought out chassis and suspension, and the cross platform compatability with others makes parts swapping a breeze, my only criteria is to find the base vehicle. 201 appealed to me because it is available, much lighter, and well, its almost free. My main concern is would I actually be getting a better or equivalent car with the 201, or stay with the heavier but known 202 chassis....

What I don't appreciate enough is that I live in a place where typically parts availability is not an issue, nor is cost usually. Good Lord I am humbled by those in foreign countries that are able to get what they need/want.

Anyway, still looking casually with several "scouts" beating the bushes for me.. getting other projects in order so when the right car does pop into view, I can be ready. Still not exactly crossing the 201 off the list, but its far below the 202 chassis at this point.
 
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