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Old 03-06-2012, 06:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Date registered: Mar 2012
Vehicle: 1997 W202 C180
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 11
W202 C180 M111 Engine swap to M104/112

Hey guys,

I'm wanting some more power from my tiny 120HP c180.

Would it be possible to swap the m111-class engine to a large V6/S6 m104/m112 Class engine type and not make any major modifications to chassis mounts or any changes to gearbox, may be able to source a transmission direct with the engine if this is advisable.

Thanks.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Date registered: Nov 2011
Vehicle: Mercedes-Benz c180 1995
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You would need to change your gearbox... To much power on that stock gearbox and it will break. A non compressor 230 is the highest (power-wise) I believe you can/should go on the stock gearbox.

I have no idea about the bigger engines fitting in that chassis, but I'm sure someone here knows the answer to that

Tell us how it works out afterwards!
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Vehicle: 1997 C280 (Cambria).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LodveJohansen View Post
You would need to change your gearbox... To much power on that stock gearbox and it will break. A non compressor 230 is the highest (power-wise) I believe you can/should go on the stock gearbox.

I have no idea about the bigger engines fitting in that chassis, but I'm sure someone here knows the answer to that

Tell us how it works out afterwards!
He should not have to swap the transmission. Unless it has one of the old 4G Tronic transmissions. But if he has the 5G Tronic then it should work will all the W202 engines without a problem. And theres really not a huge difference in power between the C180 and C280. Just think of it as if all he did was add a turbo and an intake and exhaust to his current engine. Thats probably roughly the same amount of power gain and Im certain the stock gearbox could handle that just fine.

And as for the engines fitting, yes they all will. After all, all the W202s are the same size, which is why they are called W202s. They are all the W202 chassis. Even a C43 V8 will fit in there. But I would not recommend using that engine. The cost of a decent C43 motor would be more than a mint C43 itself.

As for V6, I think the V6 uses a newer 6 speed transmission and does not use the 5G Tronic like the 95-98 models.
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Vehicle: 1997 W202 C180
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Originally Posted by C280Cambria View Post
He should not have to swap the transmission. Unless it has one of the old 4G Tronic transmissions. But if he has the 5G Tronic then it should work will all the W202 engines without a problem. And theres really not a huge difference in power between the C180 and C280. Just think of it as if all he did was add a turbo and an intake and exhaust to his current engine. Thats probably roughly the same amount of power gain and Im certain the stock gearbox could handle that just fine.

I currently have a 5-speed auto transmission which i believe was sourced from a '98 230K, but as it was changed before i bought the car, i cannot confirm this. All i do know is, the original 4speed transmission is certainly not in the car.

Also, you said there's not a huGe difference in power between the c180 and c280 engines, i thought the c280 S6 m104 had almost 200HP, almost double my tired old 1.8L engine, would i not be able to feel the power difference? As i mentioned in one of my previous posts, i can get beaten away from the traffic lights by a Hyundai Getz -

I wasn't aware that the c180 engine could be fitted with a turbocharger, if it could, how much would you estimate a 2nd hand turbo might cost ?

Thanks for your advice
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Westwood94 View Post
I currently have a 5-speed auto transmission which i believe was sourced from a '98 230K, but as it was changed before i bought the car, i cannot confirm this. All i do know is, the original 4speed transmission is certainly not in the car.

Also, you said there's not a huGe difference in power between the c180 and c280 engines, i thought the c280 S6 m104 had almost 200HP, almost double my tired old 1.8L engine, would i not be able to feel the power difference? As i mentioned in one of my previous posts, i can get beaten away from the traffic lights by a Hyundai Getz -

I wasn't aware that the c180 engine could be fitted with a turbocharger, if it could, how much would you estimate a 2nd hand turbo might cost ?

Thanks for your advice

Any internal combustion engine can be fitted with forced induction.

Yes, the C280 does have 194hp. But the C180 has 120hp. The extra 74hp would certainly be felt, but it would not be so much that it would break the gearbox as mentioned. 194hp really is not alot in terms of a 6 cylinder engine.

Sorry, I did not mean to make it sound like you wouldnt notice the power difference. I was only trying to say that the gearbox would not be damaged by it.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by C280Cambria View Post
Any internal combustion engine can be fitted with forced induction.

Yes, the C280 does have 194hp. But the C180 has 120hp. The extra 74hp would certainly be felt, but it would not be so much that it would break the gearbox as mentioned. 194hp really is not alot in terms of a 6 cylinder engine.

Sorry, I did not mean to make it sound like you wouldnt notice the power difference. I was only trying to say that the gearbox would not be damaged by it.
Ah i understand now, the gearbox would have been the same one fitted to the c280 anyhow so it should be able to handle the extra power with ease. And i know the power is ridiculously small for the displacement, Mitsubishi can pull over 300hp out of a 1998cc for instance, personally if i were to change the engine i would go for a m111 c230k engine, as its supercharged and has a lower displacement - better gas milage ! But should provide a similar power output to the 2.8 engine, only 4hp less, and benefit from a lower grossweight from the smaller block. -well that's my theory.

But, could you fit an actual supercharger from a wrecked c200k or c230k to a stock c180 engine, as this would be obviously so much cheaper and easier than replacing the whole engine.

Also, i'm also assuming that the brake and suspension setup would be the same on models up to the c280, obviously the extra power would have negative impacts on brakes and suspension if its only designed for a low-power engine.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Westwood94 View Post
Ah i understand now, the gearbox would have been the same one fitted to the c280 anyhow so it should be able to handle the extra power with ease. And i know the power is ridiculously small for the displacement, Mitsubishi can pull over 300hp out of a 1998cc for instance, personally if i were to change the engine i would go for a m111 c230k engine, as its supercharged and has a lower displacement - better gas milage ! But should provide a similar power output to the 2.8 engine, only 4hp less, and benefit from a lower grossweight from the smaller block. -well that's my theory.

But, could you fit an actual supercharger from a wrecked c200k or c230k to a stock c180 engine, as this would be obviously so much cheaper and easier than replacing the whole engine.

Also, i'm also assuming that the brake and suspension setup would be the same on models up to the c280, obviously the extra power would have negative impacts on brakes and suspension if its only designed for a low-power engine.
Well now, I wouldnt go as so far as to say that the 194 (basically 200)hp out of a 2.8L is really THAT bad. I mean, its not great, but these cars you must remember were the first era C-Class and were built to a price not the other way around. So Mercedes did not really have "sporty" in mind between the 180 and 280. Even the C36 is just a C280 bored out to 3.6L basically, not really a power machine.


Also, you can fit any turbo/supercharger to any engine theoretically. But the problem you will face is mounting it. For turbo, you would have to find the pipes made specifically for that car with the turbo in mind, or make them yourself. With a supercharger, its a bit more complicated since you have various types of them. I think Mercedes only uses the twin screw design and I dont know alot about them. I dont know too much about superchargers in general. But from what I know, they appear to be more complex to install than a turbo which is basically just bolt on and go.

The weight difference would be minimal at best, so the power to weight will probably remain near the same. The curb weight of the C280 is 3,300 lbs. With the new C250 at 3,480 or something like that. Im not sure about the C180 or C230k but remember that superchargers can be a little heavy to. So it may balance it out to weigh near the same. I couldnt imagine it being much lighter than 3,300lbs.

Last edited by C280Cambria; 03-06-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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How about having C230 short block swap over? Will it fit?
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