1997 C280 AC Problem - Mercedes-Benz Forum
 
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#1 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 11:49 AM
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1997 C280 AC Problem

My ac unit in my 1997 C280 started blowing warm air at engine idle, blows cool (not real cold) at RPM’s over 1000. Gets colder as the RPM’s go up, maxing out at about 2000 with fairly cold air, but not as cold as it use to be though.

Based on testing with engine at operating temperature with the outside air temp averaging 85-F – seems to work better when outside air temp under 75-F

Tried to add Freon using Low port on right side of grill but connection is too large to accept the quick disconnect that came with the replacement 134a. and the only other fitting I can locate that is the correct size is in accessible below the exhaust header????

Ran self diagnosis from Climate control unit but not sure what the actual procedure is, the only info I can find on this was for the E Class.

On diagnostics I got the following reading

01 = 115
02 = 145
03 = 73 degrees
05 = 68 degrees
06 = 199
07 = 15.9 to 18.2 the higher the RPM’s the higher the reading
08 = 138
09 = 32 degrees
10 = 495
20 = 5.0
21 = 150
22 = 000
23 = 000
24 = 13.6
40 = 02
41 = 03
42 = 03
43 = 6-C
50 = 70.0
51 = 72F
52 = 37F
54 = OFF


Any help pointing me in the right direction will be greatly appreciated as I live in the boonies about 100 miles from the closest Dealer.

Thanks
Bob
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#2 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 06:06 PM
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The grill port is high pressure. The low side is below the exhaust manifold.

I would definitely check your system pressure first. Low pressure will cause your pressure switch to turn off your compressor. Your evap. temp sensor reading is high; IIRC the reading should be in the 40's. Does your compressor turn on for between 2-60 seconds? If so, it is likely your evap. temp sensor under the DS kick panel, over the gas pedal. In my case, which I still not have fixed, it is a bad CCU. Based on your readout above, I think that is not your problem however.

As you probably have figured out, this is no simple climate system. Here is a list of codes and their meaning for an early model W202 (from hold down rest button thread: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w202...-button.html):

I think the codes are the same but the method of pulling them is different, YMMV:

Good luck.

Michael
SELF-DIAGNOSTICS
DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE READOUT
Entering Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Display Mode
1) Turn ignition on. Press down arrow push button until "LO" is shown in A/C-heater control panel temperature display window.
2) Within 20 seconds, simultaneously press REST and defrost push buttons for more than 2 seconds. The Light Emitting Diode (LED) in the recirculated air push button will blink and the display window will show "di R".3) Press AUTO push button repeatedly, recording each DTC,until all DTCs are displayed. Permanent malfunctions are displayed first. See DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) IDENTIFICATION tables.
4) If no permanent malfunctions are stored, the display window shows "En d". Press AUTO push button again. Intermittent DTCs will be displayed. Intermittent malfunctions are recognizable by the degree (°) symbol displayed along with the DTC (example: "04 °").
5) If no intermittent malfunctions are stored, the display window shows "En° d". Proceed to ERASING DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES.

Erasing Diagnostic Trouble Codes
1) After display window shows "En° d", press AUTO push button once again. Display window should show "dE L" (delete).
2) To erase DTCs, simultaneously press down and up arrow push buttons for more than 5 seconds. The display window should show "- --". If not erasing DTCs, press the AUTO push button. The permanent DTCs will again be displayed. Proceed to EXITING DTC DISPLAY MODE.
Exiting DTC Display Mode
Simultaneously press down and up arrow push buttons until the pre-selected temperature setting of "72 °F" is displayed. Turn ignition off.
DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) IDENTIFICATION TABLE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Code(s) (1) Cause
01 ......................Normal
02 ......................A/C-Heater Control Panel
03 & 04 ..............In-Car Temp. Sensor/Blower Short Circuit
05 & 06 ..............In-Car Temp. Sensor/Blower Short/Open Circuit
07 & 08 ..............Outside Temp. Sensor Short Circuit
09 & 10 ..............Outside Temp. Sensor Short/Open Circuit
11 & 12 ..............Heater Core Temp. Sensor Short Circuit
13 & 14 ..............Heater Core Temp. Sensor Short/Open Circuit
19 & 20 ..............Evaporator Temp. Sensor Short Circuit
21 & 22 ..............Evaporator Temp. Sensor Short/Open Circuit
23 & 24 ..............Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor Short Circuit
25 & 26 ............. Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor Short/Open Circuit
27 & 28 ..............Refrigerant Pressure Sensor Short Circuit
29 & 30 ............. Refrigerant Pressure Sensor Short/Open Circuit
31 ......................A/C Compressor RPM Sensor Circuit
32 ......................Drive Belt Slip Recognition Circuit
47 & 48 ...............Auxiliary Coolant Pump Short Circuit
49 & 50 ...............Auxiliary Coolant Pump Short/Open Circuit
51 & 52 ...............Duovalve Short/Open Circuit
53 & 54 ...............Duovalve Short/Open Circuit
59 & 60 ...............A/C Compressor Clutch Circuit
61 & 62 ...............A/C Compressor Clutch Short/Open Circuit
63 & 64 ...............(2) Auxiliary Fan Activation Short Circuit
65 & 66 ...............(2) Auxiliary Fan Activation Short/Open Circuit
67 & 68 ...............(3) Auxiliary Fan Activation Short Circuit
69 & 70 ...............(3) Auxiliary Fan Activation Short/Open Circuit
(1) - Other than codes 01 and 02, the even numbered codes indicate an intermittent malfunction.
(2) - Auxiliary (condenser) fan stage 1 (low speed).
(3) - Auxiliary (condenser) fan stage 2 (high speed).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) IDENTIFICATION TABLE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Code(s) (1) Cause
71 & 72 ....Closed Throttle Speed Increase Short/Open Circuit
73 & 74 ....Closed Throttle Speed Increase Short Circuit
75 & 76 ....Diverter Flap Switchover Valve
77 & 78 ....Diverter Flap Switchover Valve Short/Open Circuit
79 & 80 ....Tempering Flap Switchover Valve
81 & 82 ....Tempering Flap Switchover Valve Short/Open Circuit
83 & 84 ....(2) Fresh/Recirculated Air Flap Switchover Valve
85 & 86 ....(2) Fresh/Recirculated Air Flap Switchover Valve Short/Open Circuit
87 & 88 ....(3) Fresh/Recirculated Air Flap Switchover Valve
89 & 90 ....(3) Fresh/Recirculated Air Flap Switchover Valve Short/Open Circuit
91 & 92 ....(2) Defroster Flap Switchover Valve
93 & 94 ....(2) Defroster Flap Switchover Valve Short/Open Circuit
95 & 96 ....(3) Defroster Flap Switchover Valve
97 & 98 ....(3) Defroster Flap Switchover Valve Short/Open Circuit
99 & 100 ...(2) Footwell Flap Switchover Valve
101 & 102 ..(2) Footwell Flap Switchover Valve Short/Open Circuit
103 & 104 ..(3) Footwell Flap Switchover Valve
105 & 106 ..(3) Footwell Flap Switchover Valve Short/Open Circuit

(1) - Even numbered codes indicate an intermittent malfunction.
(2) - Long (80 percent movement) stroke.
(3) - Short (20 percent movement) stroke.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

READING SENSOR VALUES
1) Turn ignition on. Simultaneously press down and up arrow push buttons until the pre-selected temperature setting of "72 °F" is displayed. Press the AUTO push button.
2) Press REST push button for more than 6 seconds. The display window will alternately show "01" and an in-car temperature of "72 °F", or "LO" if there is an open circuit, or "HI" if there is a short circuit.
3) By pressing the windshield air distribution push button, the next ascending test step is displayed. By pressing the footwell air distribution push button, the next descending test step is displayed. See SENSOR VALUE DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) IDENTIFICATION table. Press REST push button to exit reading sensor values mode.

SENSOR VALUE DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) IDENTIFICATION
------------------------------------------------------------
Code Cause/Value
01 ............................. In-Car Temperature Sensor
02 ............................ Outside Temperature Sensor
03 ........................ Heater Core Temperature Sensor
05 .................... Evaporator Core Temperature Sensor
06 ................. (1) Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor
07 .............................. (2) Refrigerant Pressure
08 ............................ (3) Blower Control Voltage
09 .......... Software Status Of A/C-Heater Control Module
15 ........................... Selected In-Car Temperature
20 ................................. Software Version Code
21 ...................................... (4) Engine Speed
22 .............................. (5) A/C Compressor Speed
23 ......................................... Vehicle Speed
50 ................................ 80.° - 00.° (Not Used)
51 ......... Number Of Actual Drive Belt Slip Recognitions
52 ......... Number Of Actual Drive Belt Slip Recognitions
(1) - A display of "12.°5" corresponds to 125 Celsius (257°F).
(2) - Refrigerant pressure is displayed in bar. One bar equals 14.5037 psi. A display of "12.°8" corresponds to 12.8 bar (185.6 psi).
(3) - A display of "16.°5" corresponds to 1.65 volts.
(4) - A display of "06.°0" to "70.°0" corresponds to 600 RPM to 7000 RPM respectively.
(5) - A display of "00.°0" to "84.°0" corresponds to 0 RPM to 8400 RPM respectively.

Michael
1986 190D, 5 Speed
1985 Porsche 928, 5 Speed (32v)
1980 Porsche 928, 5 Speed (16v)
So Cal
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#3 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 07:16 PM
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Even though the system is complicated. You are probably just low on freon. You can buy a set of inexpensive gages with long hoses at Harbor Freight for less then $50, and then you'll know for sure
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#4 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinstockman View Post
Even though the system is complicated. You are probably just low on freon. You can buy a set of inexpensive gages with long hoses at Harbor Freight for less then $50, and then you'll know for sure
Yes, like I said check your pressure first. However, between the $50 HFT manifold set, the R134a and a vacuum set-up (your system should be evacuated first), you are looking at more or less what a professional would charge to vacuum and properly fill your system. Also, according to your diagnostic reading , your refrigerant is in a very acceptable range "07 = 15.9 to 18.2 the higher the RPM’s the higher the reading". While it is always more accurate to use a proper manifold set-up because the system does not always provide an accurate reading, you can get a pretty good idea of your pressure from your diagnostic.

Michael
1986 190D, 5 Speed
1985 Porsche 928, 5 Speed (32v)
1980 Porsche 928, 5 Speed (16v)
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#5 (permalink) Old 08-04-2008, 09:46 AM
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update

Thanks for the input - still having problems but greatly narrowed nown as result of your help.

Tried to add 134a this am, wouldn't take any.

leaning toward the evap temp sensor, as Item #50 on diagnosis indicates that the Comp unit is off -recei8ving no power.

I located the speciific diagnositc proceedure for the 1997-1999 C280

Thought some of you may be able to use it. as the read-outs are clearly identified as well as fault codes.

A/C SELF DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEMS - 1990-97
Baum Tools Unlimited Inc. 941-927-1414 / Technical Support 800-804-1002 or tech@baumtools.com 93
202 Chassis from 9/95

READING ACTUAL VALUES
1. IGNITION : Position 1
2. Set temperature selector to 72 degrees F.
3. Press the REST button for more than 6 seconds.
4. The left display will alternately show the number "01" and the in-car temperature.
5. Press the FAN button and the next component number and its value will be displayed.
6. Press the REST button to end the test program.
COMPONENT UNDER TEST

Number Component
01 In-Car Temperature Sensor with Aspirator Blower (B10/4)
02 Outside Temperature Sensor (B14)
03 Heater Core Temperature Sensor (B10/1)
05 Evaporator Temperature Sensor (B10/6)
06 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) (B11/4)
07 Refrigerant Pressure in Bar
08 Refrigerant Temperature Sensor (B12/1)
09 Not Used
10 Blower Control Voltage
20 Control Current for Auxiliary Fan exp. : 7 = 7 mA
21 Engine RPM. example 00..99 (x100) = 9900
22 Vehicle Speed
23 PIN 58D exp. 99.0 = 99% of Battery Voltage
24 Battery Voltage : 12.8 = 12,8 Volt
40 A/C Controller Software Version Coding
41 A/C Controller Hardware Version
42 Variant code 1
43 Variant code 2
50 Not Used
51 Not Used
52 Not Used
54 ON/OFF A/C Compressor emergency off signal from engine control module.


202 Chassis from 9/95
FAULT DIAGNOSIS
1. IGNITION : Position 1
2. Temperature selector wheel : "LO"
3. Within 20 seconds press the REST and DEFROST buttons simultaneously for more than 5 seconds.
4. The LED in the RECIRCULATE button flashes and "dI A" appears on the display.
5. Press the AUTO button until all DTC's are displayed and recorded.
6. The current faults are displayed first, then the intermittent faults. "END'" is displayed when all codes have been displayed.
7. To erase codes press v and ^ simultaneously for more than 5 seconds. The display will then show "---". Press AUTO to cancel
the erase.
8. IGNITION : OFF to end the test program.


FAULT CODES - 202 Chassis from 9/95
DTC Readout Description
026 CAN Bus Communication
226 In-Car Air Temperature Sensor (B10/4)
227 Outside Air Temperature Sensor (B14)
228 Heater Core Temperature Sensor (B10/1)
230 Evaporator Temperature Sensor (B10/6)
231 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (B11/4)
232 Refrigerant Pressure Sensor (B12)
233 Refrigerant Temperature Sensor (B12/1)
241 Refrigerant Level
416 Coolant Circulation Pump (A31m1)
417 Left Duovalve (Water Valve) (Y21y1)
418 Right Duovalve (Water Valve) (Y21y2)
419 A/C Compressor Electromagnetic Clutch (A9k1)
420 Closed (Idle) Throttle Speed Increase
421 Pulse Module (N65)
422 Serial Interface Connection (K1) to Instrument Cluster (IC)
451 Diverter Flap (Y11/3)
452 Blend Air Flap (Y11/3)
453 Fresh/Recirculated Air Flap (Y11/3) Long Stroke
454 Fresh/Recirculated Air Flap (Y11/3) Short Stroke
455 Defroster Outlet Flap (Y11/3) Long Stroke
456 Defroster Outlet Flap (Y11/3) Short Stroke
457 Footwell Flap (Y11/3) Long Stroke
458 Footwell Flap (Y11/3) Short Stroke
459 Serial Interface Connection (K2) to Instrument Cluster (IC)
462 Wide Open Throttle (WOT) Position Signal - Diesel Engine Only

Will update as I progress. I may take it to the big city and have a professional AC Shop evac and recharge.

I'm in a very small town and don't trust the Good Ole Boys working on such a fine German Machine.

Thanks again,
Bob
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#6 (permalink) Old 06-17-2009, 09:15 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC280 View Post
Thanks for the input - still having problems but greatly narrowed nown as result of your help.

Tried to add 134a this am, wouldn't take any.

leaning toward the evap temp sensor, as Item #50 on diagnosis indicates that the Comp unit is off -recei8ving no power.

I located the speciific diagnositc proceedure for the 1997-1999 C280

Thought some of you may be able to use it. as the read-outs are clearly identified as well as fault codes.

A/C SELF DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEMS - 1990-97
Baum Tools Unlimited Inc. 941-927-1414 / Technical Support 800-804-1002 or tech@baumtools.com 93
202 Chassis from 9/95

READING ACTUAL VALUES
1. IGNITION : Position 1
2. Set temperature selector to 72 degrees F.
3. Press the REST button for more than 6 seconds.
4. The left display will alternately show the number "01" and the in-car temperature.
5. Press the FAN button and the next component number and its value will be displayed.
6. Press the REST button to end the test program.
COMPONENT UNDER TEST

Number Component
01 In-Car Temperature Sensor with Aspirator Blower (B10/4)
02 Outside Temperature Sensor (B14)
03 Heater Core Temperature Sensor (B10/1)
05 Evaporator Temperature Sensor (B10/6)
06 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) (B11/4)
07 Refrigerant Pressure in Bar
08 Refrigerant Temperature Sensor (B12/1)
09 Not Used
10 Blower Control Voltage
20 Control Current for Auxiliary Fan exp. : 7 = 7 mA
21 Engine RPM. example 00..99 (x100) = 9900
22 Vehicle Speed
23 PIN 58D exp. 99.0 = 99% of Battery Voltage
24 Battery Voltage : 12.8 = 12,8 Volt
40 A/C Controller Software Version Coding
41 A/C Controller Hardware Version
42 Variant code 1
43 Variant code 2
50 Not Used
51 Not Used
52 Not Used
54 ON/OFF A/C Compressor emergency off signal from engine control module.


202 Chassis from 9/95
FAULT DIAGNOSIS
1. IGNITION : Position 1
2. Temperature selector wheel : "LO"
3. Within 20 seconds press the REST and DEFROST buttons simultaneously for more than 5 seconds.
4. The LED in the RECIRCULATE button flashes and "dI A" appears on the display.
5. Press the AUTO button until all DTC's are displayed and recorded.
6. The current faults are displayed first, then the intermittent faults. "END'" is displayed when all codes have been displayed.
7. To erase codes press v and ^ simultaneously for more than 5 seconds. The display will then show "---". Press AUTO to cancel
the erase.
8. IGNITION : OFF to end the test program.


FAULT CODES - 202 Chassis from 9/95
DTC Readout Description
026 CAN Bus Communication
226 In-Car Air Temperature Sensor (B10/4)
227 Outside Air Temperature Sensor (B14)
228 Heater Core Temperature Sensor (B10/1)
230 Evaporator Temperature Sensor (B10/6)
231 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (B11/4)
232 Refrigerant Pressure Sensor (B12)
233 Refrigerant Temperature Sensor (B12/1)
241 Refrigerant Level
416 Coolant Circulation Pump (A31m1)
417 Left Duovalve (Water Valve) (Y21y1)
418 Right Duovalve (Water Valve) (Y21y2)
419 A/C Compressor Electromagnetic Clutch (A9k1)
420 Closed (Idle) Throttle Speed Increase
421 Pulse Module (N65)
422 Serial Interface Connection (K1) to Instrument Cluster (IC)
451 Diverter Flap (Y11/3)
452 Blend Air Flap (Y11/3)
453 Fresh/Recirculated Air Flap (Y11/3) Long Stroke
454 Fresh/Recirculated Air Flap (Y11/3) Short Stroke
455 Defroster Outlet Flap (Y11/3) Long Stroke
456 Defroster Outlet Flap (Y11/3) Short Stroke
457 Footwell Flap (Y11/3) Long Stroke
458 Footwell Flap (Y11/3) Short Stroke
459 Serial Interface Connection (K2) to Instrument Cluster (IC)
462 Wide Open Throttle (WOT) Position Signal - Diesel Engine Only

Will update as I progress. I may take it to the big city and have a professional AC Shop evac and recharge.

I'm in a very small town and don't trust the Good Ole Boys working on such a fine German Machine.

Thanks again,
Bob
1997 C280. My initial concern was no cold air through the two center vents although the cold air worked well through the two dash side vents. I replaced the air filter. Still no cold air through center vents although I am now getting cold air through the defrost. I don't think I was before but wasn't concerned about it. I used the quoted method to diagnose for "202 Chasis." The display went from "DI A" to "End" and then to "Delete." Does this mean the procedure didn't find any problems and that maybe I just don't know how to turn the damn thing on properly?
Thanks, Gene
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#7 (permalink) Old 10-11-2009, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghartin View Post
1997 C280. My initial concern was no cold air through the two center vents although the cold air worked well through the two dash side vents. I replaced the air filter. Still no cold air through center vents although I am now getting cold air through the defrost. I don't think I was before but wasn't concerned about it. I used the quoted method to diagnose for "202 Chasis." The display went from "DI A" to "End" and then to "Delete." Does this mean the procedure didn't find any problems and that maybe I just don't know how to turn the damn thing on properly?
Thanks, Gene
Does your model have the individual vent controls modules like earlier models (vacuum vs electrically controlled)?

Maybe it's just as simple as popping off the center vent cover and check if it is opening and closing properly when you select different vent settings.

If cool air is coming through the sides and not the center vents, it sounds logical that the duct/vent that controls the air routing to the center is at fault.

Past Euros: 91 MBZ 300TE, 91 Jaguar XJS V12 Coupe, 94 Alfa Romeo 164 LS, 80 BMW 320i, 85 BMW 528e, 86 BMW 325e, 88 BMW 325e, 88 BMW 325i Cab, 89 BMW 325ix, 91 325i Cabrio, 93 BMW 740i, 94 BMW 740iL, 95 BMW 525i, 78 Fiat Spyder 124, 98 Land Rover D1 LSE, 93 MBZ 190E 2.6, 96 MBZ C280 Sport, 93 MBZ 400E, 90 MBZ 300ce, 92 MBZ 500SL, 71 MGB-GT, 91 VW Corrado G60

Last edited by Bimmerman4ever; 10-11-2009 at 12:45 PM.
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