190E with 3.0 5-speed Swap - Mercedes-Benz Forum
 
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#1 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 09:50 PM
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190E with 3.0 5-speed Swap

Alright folks, here's a tricky one for you. I've got a 1993 190E that originally came with a 2.6. Last March (you may have seen my thread) I had some transmission issues. I ended up swapping in a '86 3.0, and keeping my original slushbox after I fixed it. Almost a year on, I drove the car in my first rally, and it was a bit of a bore. Not 3 days later, a buddy of mine found a mid 80's 190E 2.3 on the other side of the state with a 5-speed and everything necessary to do the swap still in it. Now, if it's still there, I plan on going to pull the transmission on Monday/Tuesday of this week. Now, I've got Dudeperson3's thread on completing the swap, and I don't think I'll have any issues with that.

Where the issue comes in is the flywheel. Where am I going to find a flywheel for a 3.0 petrol with a manual? Did they even sell them in the states? If I have to order one from overseas, oh well, I'll eat the cost. The whole setup is gonna cost all of about $200 short of the flywheel. But at this point, any insight on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mack the Knife
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#2 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 10:07 PM
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I'm not sure, but I think a 2.6 flywheel will work as well. Unfortunately, those are also in short supply. I have an '89 3.0 swapped 5-speed 190e, but I didn't do the swap so I really don't know. You should check 190rev.net, there may be something there.

Also, you may want to make sure that the manual gearbox can handle the power of the 3.0. I don't know if there are any issues with this, but it's possible.

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#3 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 04:35 AM
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your putting a 2.3 5-spd in with a 3.0 engine? i wouldn't be racing it unless you spend like $1000 and get a getrag. the 2.3 can handle daily driving of a 3.0, but if you attempt to race it you have a good chance of damaging the transmission. as NFS said ..go check out 190rev, there are a few people selling getrags right now.

i need my star cleaned too


'91 2.3 DD
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#4 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:10 PM
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I spent several hours researching the matter last night, and here's what I found out. The clutch for the M102's is 8.5", and the clutch for M103's is 9", so they're not compatible. The 2.3-16 flywheel is the right size for the M103, but the crank sensor timing windows are in the wrong place. The original M102 flywheels, up through about 88(?) didn't have any crank sensor timing windows, and the 16v flywheel only had 2. The M103 needs 3 of them to run properly on the stock ignition. Flywheel offset isn't much of a worry, just those crank sensor windows/arches. Also, the flywheels were single mass up through 88 or 89, then changed to dual mass, single mass being more desirable.

So, if I want to do this swap, I'm going to need to find the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, and all that jazz from a 86-88 M103 with a manual. If anyone has one or has any idea where I could get one for a reasonable price, please let me know.

And as for racing, this was a TSD Rally. Nothing terribly hard or hard on the car. I don't have the money to drop on a Getrag, and I can't see myself having that money anytime soon. I don't know how you guys do it, but I'm 20 and I work for Apple, but I still find myself broke every month working on this car.
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#5 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:30 PM
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not entirely correct...the the m102 2.3 16v has a 9" clutch...and some people have welded on new crank sensors..

i guess no one told you, there is no cheap benz.. but these are fun to drive cars...

you really need to join up on 190rev, this topic has been done many times over in various forms by several people..

i need my star cleaned too


'91 2.3 DD
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#6 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 01:39 PM
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That's what I was referring to with the 2.3-16 being the right size... And yeah, I could weld on new crank sensors, but I don't trust my welding skills that much. And if I'm going to pay for a 2.3-16 flywheel and then to have someone weld on the crank sensors, I might as well buy an M103 flywheel from overseas. The flywheel/clutch/pressure plate are going to cost 3x what I'd get the transmission for if I went that route.

Nope, no one told me, I found out myself. On the same note, I did an entire engine swap (2.6 to 3.0) and fixed my original transmission last spring for a grand total of $250.

I joined up on 190rev last night, that's where I was doing most of the research. Figured I'd share some of it here. I might make a post over there asking for advice.

And as I was driving down the road today, coffee in one hand, cigarette in the other, I started to question myself for wanting a manual... I was recently gifted an '81 VW Rabbit diesel with a 5-speed, which needs a lot of work. I'm starting to think maybe I should just use the 190 for a tourer, and slap a turbo and GTI suspension on the Rabbit, gut it, and call that my racekor. But the swap is still inevitable!
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#7 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 09:43 PM
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I am almost done modifying my 16v flywheel for m103. I just posted pictures of a how to on my other forum, here is a copy n paste:

Mercedes 6 cyl. CIS injection requires these 3 points with a sensor to tell the
injectors when to fire.


4 cylinder requires 2 points. Cut


Smoothed out the surface


Well this method I'm trying almost worked but are not close enough
to the flywheel


So I cut off the ring gear, cut the rivets out and placed the center
on the other side.


Bolt it down and throw some spot welds on it


I'm now at the point of cutting the rest off
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#8 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 10:50 PM
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How did you make sure the markers are on the right points on the flywheel? If they're even a little off, it will throw off the whole engine. I feel like when you flipped over original flexplate, it will give you the mirror image of where they need to be, not the exact location...
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#9 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 11:05 PM
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ya I realized that right after I posted it, went out and cut them off, oh well I have another m103 ring gear
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