190E 2.6: While running/driving, engine "stalls", tach dies, BUT..... - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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#1 (permalink) Old 07-15-2009, 10:26 PM
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190E 2.6: While running/driving, engine "stalls", tach dies, BUT.....

Hi all -

* * * * * * * * *
FIRST OF ALL: Thanks to all for this forum. It helped me replace the Water Pump on my '92 190E 2.6, and I am 100% willing to coach anyone else thru it who may need help. Just send me a PM. (I am planning to post my lessons learned.)
* * * * * * * * *
Anyways, love my 190e, but it has developed a very intermittent (and disconcerting) stalling problem.

The symptoms:
Car running/driving smoothly, any speed, then suddenly, the tach falls to sero, and the car begins to stall (no response to accelerator), but...
1. The dash lights do not go on
2. "Coasts" almost like it is in Neutral (Power steering, etc still works)
3. Usually, within a few seconds (sometimes more 8-O), the tach jumps back up, and the car runs normally again.

This also happened when parked, and I tried to start it. Oddly, the car starts up - not just turns over, it starts and revs to normal - but immediately stalls, like I shut it off. This is readily repeated.

However, as a test: if I keep the key turned to "Start" (I dont recommend it), it appears to run normally - I can even rev the engine to keep it running.

Basically, it behaves as if I am turning the car off.

This sounds like it must be electrical - coil, perhaps? Or is there some sort of "kill" switch/relay that is tripping?

I have pored thru the (awesome and indispensable) online PDF MB Manual, but could find nothing.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce

'92 190E 2.6 201/103
"SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE BENZ!!!"
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#2 (permalink) Old 07-16-2009, 06:07 AM
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Ah-hem. OH DREWPROF? I BELIEVE WE NEED YOU FOR A MOMENT!

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#3 (permalink) Old 07-16-2009, 07:31 AM
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I don't get it at all. I would have to run out of gasoline to get my 8v to stall. My 16v feels the same.

A petrol motor needs compression, fuel, timing and spark to run. My personal approach is to rule out each of these elements in reverse order. Use the look, feel and listen approach.

I would pull the plugs to see their condition. There are charts online that show how to read the spark plugs. Working from the plug to the wire to the cap, rotor, distributor interior and ignition coil/igniter, inspect each, disconnect each and see if spark appears. If you smell fuel, then the fuel delivery system probably works correctly.

A cheap timing light will reveal major mechanical failure.

Use a compression gauge to see whether the cylinders build and maintain pressure.

There is also the risk that more than one problem is working in concert so you may need some experienced help. Depending upon where you live, I am sure our Benzworld team would enjoy a road trip to help you check it out.

The home of the two 201's.
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#4 (permalink) Old 07-16-2009, 10:07 AM
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ah yeah... stalling
mine will be no more I hope!

Bruce check out my Stalling Again thread, you may learn something and even perhaps find the problem. We got some really good people in here that know their stuff so hang in there and welcome to Benzworld!
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#5 (permalink) Old 07-16-2009, 10:42 AM
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Sounds like symptoms of a failed crankshaft position sensor. There are 2 of them on your car, one at the rear of the engine and one at the front. It is typically the rear CPS that fails. The front really is the TDC sensor actually. The rear CPS connects to the EZL ignition module on the driver's side strut mount area in the engine bay.

You can test the CPS using a multimeter although I honestly can't remember what the steps are. I'm sure you can find it from some searches. If you can't, post back. Some people have indicated that even if you do get a good reading, there's enough crud on it that you should remove it and clean it and it works well again.
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#6 (permalink) Old 07-16-2009, 12:42 PM
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Hi all -

Thanks for the quick replies!

Drew, before I posted, I did a cursory look at your Stalling thread - didn't sound the same as mine (at idle, etc), hence my post. BUT, I just now did read through it - up to page 15 (out of like, 60?), and it still sounds different. More electrical than vacuum. But then again, this is my first Benz (out of umpteen cars of all sorts).

What was the ultimate outcome/problem? Vacuum? ICV?

My symptoms occur not just at idle or startup, but literally at any time. Recently, on a 3-hr trip, at 65mph, the tach just dropped to ZERO, the throttle was unresponsive, no lights (ala stalled) came on, it just starte to coast, like it was in neutral. Within 5 secs or so, the tach just jumped to life, and it was just as suddenly "all good".
The other time it happed (a couple days ago) - It was in the parking lot, at startup. It would start, then immediatly shut down, like I turned off the key. Waited a few moments (I opened the hood wiggled a few wires - unlikely it did anything) - and it fired right up.

I will look into the ICV (clean it, check hoses, etc), AND check out the CPS (same as the Camshaft Position Sensor? (that one went bad on my '92 Taurus SHO). I'd like to test it - the replacement at Autozone is Special order $78.

Thanks again, everyone!

Bruce
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#7 (permalink) Old 07-16-2009, 01:00 PM
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Mine used to stall intermitently when coming to a stop. I was able to start it right up again. I changed the OVP Feb and it hasn't happened since. However, my car is a 2.3.

FS: AMG Gen 1 w201 side skirts and rear skirt.
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#8 (permalink) Old 07-16-2009, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lars-tetens View Post
Hi all -

Thanks for the quick replies!

Drew, before I posted, I did a cursory look at your Stalling thread - didn't sound the same as mine (at idle, etc), hence my post. BUT, I just now did read through it - up to page 15 (out of like, 60?), and it still sounds different. More electrical than vacuum. But then again, this is my first Benz (out of umpteen cars of all sorts).

What was the ultimate outcome/problem? Vacuum? ICV?

My symptoms occur not just at idle or startup, but literally at any time. Recently, on a 3-hr trip, at 65mph, the tach just dropped to ZERO, the throttle was unresponsive, no lights (ala stalled) came on, it just starte to coast, like it was in neutral. Within 5 secs or so, the tach just jumped to life, and it was just as suddenly "all good".
The other time it happed (a couple days ago) - It was in the parking lot, at startup. It would start, then immediatly shut down, like I turned off the key. Waited a few moments (I opened the hood wiggled a few wires - unlikely it did anything) - and it fired right up.

I will look into the ICV (clean it, check hoses, etc), AND check out the CPS (same as the Camshaft Position Sensor? (that one went bad on my '92 Taurus SHO). I'd like to test it - the replacement at Autozone is Special order $78.

Thanks again, everyone!

Bruce
Yes, that's the CPS. I would suggest ordering an OEM one from some of the online vendors though, usually a bit more robust. Autohausaz, Fast Lane, Buy MB Parts are good guesses and usually competitively priced.
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#9 (permalink) Old 07-16-2009, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprof View Post
Bruce check out my Stalling Again thread, you may learn something and even perhaps find the problem.
Maybe you should tell him where to look in it....... thats a big a*s thread...

GO HABS GO!!!!
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#10 (permalink) Old 07-27-2009, 09:03 PM
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Hi all -
Just a quick update: the 109E has been running well... until today.

It cut out on me about a dozen times on the way home. And "cut out" is probably a more accurate term than "stalling", in this case. Fortunately, If I am at speed, the RPMs or something allow it to not completely stall out, and within a few secs the tach would jump back up and it would run again. The prob came when navigating stoplights. :-(

Anyways! Chowbow, I think you might have called it. I am still debugging the problem, but am hopeful that the pickup/sending unit is just so crudded up that a good cleaning will help.
Like you great folks on the forum, the online PDF manuals are a godsend. It of course has detailed drawings and descriptions, and even the specs for the CPS itself. Range: 680-1200 Ohms - mine tested at 848.
Thanks, too for the tip on buying a replacement (if cleaning doesn't work) from Autohaus AZ. Great prices.
Stay tuned - I'll be pulling the sensor tomorrow to have a look at it!
Thanks again, everyone,
-Bruce
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