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Shifter moves when I apply brakes

2K views 20 replies 6 participants last post by  bmadams 
#1 · (Edited)
Shifter moves when I apply brakes (FIXED)

Ok, got a strange one here (7/15/09...PROBLEM FIXED...see below)

This is on my sons 190E 2.3-16v automatic, but should apply to any 190E

When I apply the brakes, the shifter moves in a backward direction, as much as a 1/4"

The harder I brake, the more it moves
(shift bushing are like new)
When I apply brakes all the way to a stop, the shifter actually will stay moved back enough to make it hard to get into 'P' position. When I release the brakes, it will relax the shifter to move back to where it should be and I can put it in 'P'

I have put the rear up on jacks and tried to move the rear wheels/suspension and it is firm with no movement.

Anybody experience this or have suggestions as to what is going on? thx, Brian

(7/15/09...PROBLEM FIXED)
THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP AND SUGGESTIONS, I GOT BACK UNDER THE CAR TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING SUGGESTED AND....FOUND THE TOP 17MM BOLT FOR THE ENGINE MOUNT LOOSE.....ON BOTH SIDES.....I MEAN 3-5 TURNS LOOSE. TIGHTENED THOSE UP AND NO MORE SHIFTER MOVING!! NONE!! and I also fixed that mysterious rattle I had been hearing when I revved the engine, it was that heat shield over the Rt mount. and, another neat thing, that top bolt over the left side, that is so hard to get to on the other 190E, is very easy to get to on the 16V.....I didn't have to remove anything....and I know why this problem "just" showed up (I have had the car for several years...
well I replaced the shifter bushing months ago, and recently replaced the rear suspension links (that were shot). Doing these 2 repairs, eliminated the play that kept the engine moving from moving the shifter...AND the fix cost me nothing...it pays to think, look, ask and think some more before tearing things apart and replacing parts!!! THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR SUGGESTIONS...may the force be with you...and Jesus in your heart!!
 
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#2 ·
Probably worn engine/transmission/differential mounts that cause the drivetrain to move forward as the car brakes. Shift lever is a lever with the hinge in middle, if drivetrain moves forward, the knob moves backwards.

Suspension has nothing to do with this.

Hope that helps :)
 
#3 · (Edited)
yea, I was wondering what component has the most influence on the front to rear movement, I know everything is rubber mounted.

From front to back there's:
-Engine Mounts
-Transmission Mount
-Flex Discs (frt/rear- but do not have frt/rr movement)
-Rear subframe assembly (shows 0 movement with car on jacks)

thanks for explaining that the shifter will move backwards as the trany moves forward
 
#4 ·
Does the car vibrate when idling with the car in gear? Usually a sign of worn motor mounts and may cause an issue like that. I would suggest replacing the motor mounts if they haven't been done before, and the trans mount too since it's cheap and easy to get to. I did those 3 and the car felt a lot smoother afterwards - definite improvement. Although I did not have any symptoms of the drivetrain moving back and forth.
 
#5 ·
Ideally those mounts (engine/trans/diff) should be replaced at the same time. One goes, and the others tend to go after you replaced the first bad one.

I'd put my money on the trans/engine mounts first. The engine and transmission as a whole, is heavier, so they put more "load" on the mounts.
 
#11 ·
Does the rear end of the car rise and lower as you shift from P to R, and to D, respectively? It should be nice and tight.

Now that I think of it, the differential mount could also cause this since it's functionally the closest mount to the wheels (engine and trans mounts only hold them in place, but differential mount receives the initial load) - after reading your thread regarding braking and releasing the brakes (and consequently, letting the shifter go back into correct position), I know worn differential mounts do that sort of thing in RWD cars. The momentum from stopping and the torque from the brakes hold it in that position until you release the brakes.
 
#14 ·
Thnx for the link/pics and suggestions. wow, I did not know you could see the height difference on the motor mounts so easily. I have some old ones laying around and was wondering how to tell is there good or not.

Sincity, I read thru that post nd looked at your pics, thanks...that all will be a big help.

So this is my plan:
1) Check/change transmission mount (because I have one in hand)
2) While doing that, check motor mounts per Sincity pics and raed_jan instructions above.
3) Drive the car and update this forum post (and one on 190 forum)
4) Order and do the motor mounts based on results from above work.

As for the differential mounts, I need to get back under there and study that better, I thought it was fix mounted in the subframe assembly, so it would be the subframe mounts that would be suspect? I do know that I put the rear up on jacks and stuck a 2x4 between the wheel and wheel well and could not move them front to back.

and
I will have to do this in a couple of weeks, my oldest son is getting married the 4th. He is stationed in Hawaii (Army) and we are making a vacation out of it :)

but I promise to update this thread as I get things done...
 
#16 ·
Sincity, I read thru that post nd looked at your pics, thanks...that all will be a big help.

I will have to do this in a couple of weeks, my oldest son is getting married the 4th. He is stationed in Hawaii (Army) and we are making a vacation out of it :)

but I promise to update this thread as I get things done...
Glad to be able to return the favor. Good luck on removing the top bolt on the driver side mount and you may want to read the various suggestions on doing so in that thread.

Have a safe vacation!
 
#15 ·
One last thing...... Don't E-bay the mounts....use AutohausAz, great parts for cheaper price
 
#21 ·
(7/15/09...PROBLEM FIXED)
THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP AND SUGGESTIONS, I GOT BACK UNDER THE CAR TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING SUGGESTED AND....FOUND THE TOP 17MM BOLT FOR THE ENGINE MOUNT LOOSE.....ON BOTH SIDES.....I MEAN 3-5 TURNS LOOSE. TIGHTENED THOSE UP AND NO MORE SHIFTER MOVING!! NONE!! and I also fixed that mysterious rattle I had been hearing when I revved the engine, it was that heat shield over the Rt mount. and, another neat thing, that top bolt over the left side, that is so hard to get to on the other 190E, is very easy to get to on the 16V.....I didn't have to remove anything....and I know why this problem "just" showed up (I have had the car for several years...
well I replaced the shifter bushing months ago, and recently replaced the rear suspension links (that were shot). Doing these 2 repairs, eliminated the play that kept the engine moving from moving the shifter...AND the fix cost me nothing...it pays to think, look, ask and think some more before tearing things apart and replacing parts!!! THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR SUGGESTIONS...may the force be with you...and Jesus in your heart!!
 
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