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My verdict on the 190E AMG 6.0

5K views 12 replies 10 participants last post by  Monkey Boy 
#1 ·
Reference: Mercedes Benz 190E 6.0 AMG

Since I’m collecting AMGs lately, I thought I’d investigate this red 190E AMG 6.0 that pops up every few years - it was on ebay in 2005 and it was on craigslist early in November. If it was real, then I’d buy it and restore it to its formal glory – if proven to be BS, then I have no interest in it.

• The Seller (I’ll keep his name private) is a used car dealer in New Hampshire – and not a very reputable one. He’s had that car for a very long time, and there are lots and lots of stories about his rudeness. I even found a disgruntled customer who was given the business card of the Seller with the name “Gary Sunshine” on it – “Sunshine” is the name of the Seller’s boat – what kind of used car salesman has fake business cards? The Seller is trouble, but that doesn't mean the car isn't real.

• The engine was recently rebuilt by a local engine shop in Dover – they used forged pistons, billet crankshaft, billet camshafts, and polished/ported heads. I never got to speak to that engine shop to see if they rebuilt what was already there, or if they got an M117 block and made it themselves, but the Seller says that the engine shop "rebuilt the engine" - implying the M117 was already in the car at that time.

• The VIN (WDBDA28D4HF330118) comes back as a 1987 190E 2.3 in tan metallic over tan. Since this car has 16v seats and 16v center gauges, I was sure this car was a 16v that was converted, and then had the primary gauge cluster swapped back to the 2.3 to hide the mileage (you can see “cluster scrapes” on some pics I have). Now, I don’t know. Perhaps the VIN the Seller supplied is wrong, and perhaps this was originally a 2.3 that was painted red and given a black interior. Yeeesh. How many real miles are on this car? God knows.

• Comparing the body kit to an ‘80s AMG catalog I have, I think the body kit is a real wide-body kit. It looks identical to the catalog, but it still could be an exact forgery – they’re out there. Since the engine was expensive as hell, I’d bet the kit was real.

• Buxbaum, the ex-head of AMG of North America, says he is 99% certain that AMG Germany didn’t build that car, and he’s 100% certain AMG of NA didn’t build it.

• Hartmut Feyhl, head of RennTech, says that (1) AMG never built a 190E with a V8, (2) he doubts the 6.0 was an AMG engine because AMG never had forged pistons because they were too noisy and had high oil consumption, and (3) AMG never used billet cams or crankshafts nor had stainless exhaust systems (handmade mild steel only).

Someone spent a lot of money on that 190E AMG 6.0, but its history is completely undocumented, the Seller is a documented jerk, and the engine rebuild wasn’t done all that well as evidenced by the leaky head gaskets. If the VIN the Seller gave to me is accurate, the car is a 1987 190E 2.3 that had a real AMG body kit put on it, then had the engine yanked and installed the highly modified M117 including a stainless exhaust – all of this done at some monstrous expense – and had the whole car painted red and a whole new black interior installed. If the Seller gave me the wrong VIN, then we're back to he's a documented jerk who can't be trusted.

Who originally commissioned this work and who installed all that stuff? The seller has no history on the car, so he doesn't know. Not AMG of NA, that’s for certain – they’ve never even heard of a 190E with a V8. Someone spent a lot of money on that car, and it’s an absolute killer toy for someone who has lots of time to play with getting it right, but it was never built by AMG, and I would think that level of work would require some input from AMG Germany or AMG or NA.

That's the results of my investigation.
 
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#3 ·
I figured this was the car I'd seen on ebay repeatedly..If I remember they could never get it to cool properly...

After 3 emails with the guy I was Done.

Jonathan
 
#4 ·
kool, good to know.
 
#9 ·
Last I heard, this car was purchased by a forum member Bruce and had it sent down to Jonathan in Atlanta for repairs. Know nothing of its current status. I, too, doubt its an in-house build, but pretty much built to someone's liking.
 
#11 ·
do tell.. it might be someones parts car.. if so i got dibs on the kit :D
 
#12 ·
Sorry for the delay!...work,work and more work!

The red 190 V8 that pops up on ebay from time to time is an interesting one alright,and i know there has been much debate as to its authenticity,BUT,i know of (or a least knew of) two others!
Ok,heres the skinny on the first car!,..a work colleague of mine spotted a black one of these ''supposed factory built" AMG 6.0 cars in south africa, outside a mercedes dealership in or around 2001 !,Now the unfortunate thing is he has since returned to south Africa,but i am trying to track him down thu family here in New Zealand in the hope he can send me an email,as photos were taken at the time (will keep you posted on progress with this one !)
Now,the second car was for sale in a US magazine called 'Dupont Registry sometime in the early to mid 90s in a dealership in the Florida area???
Now i did have a copy of the particular issue,but i just cant seem to find it at the moment,or recall exactly what year it was,but i remember just about every page,as i must have browsed through it a hundred times over the years!
*Heres some of the cars either for sale or featured in the issue,in the hope that someone may have a copy or know someone that has been collecting dupont registry since the early 90s...This may jog someones memory -)

*Christmas issue,that featured...

*Rod stewarts porsche 911 (with picture of him leaning on the car) for sale
*White 911 gemballa slope nose (as used by 'Vanilla ice' touring group) 4 sale
*K,I.T.T knightrider car (replica i think) for sale
*American Vector supercar... Artical
Now from memory the car was a royal blue color and featured a blue leather
interior,woodgrain and five spoke AMG penta rims
its also interesting to note there was another 190 pictured in the foreground of one of the photos,that looked like its twin sister......another v8 perhaps ??
'well this is all i have to go on right now,as it must of been at least seven or eight years since i picked up that magazine.
hoping someone has some pics of this car they can share..

All the best
Paul.
 
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