190E Vs 300E - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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#11 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 09:41 PM
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RE: 190E Vs 300E

Ok here is your next question:

I have a 190E with a 2.6 and it has 158K miles on it. I have found a 300e, 3 liter with 70K miles. My question to you is will the 3 liter fit with little or no modification to my 190E?

If it fits then what would you recommend to do to the 3 liter before performing the engine swap?

Thanks,[:D]

PS: OK I lied and asked two questions[^]
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#12 (permalink) Old 03-15-2004, 11:29 PM
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RE: 190E Vs 300E

Will it just drop/bolt in? Nope, you're going to need a trans transplant too, possibly a driveshaft mod as well. What year 2.6? The '90 and later models are easier (wiring harness, fuel injection system) to transplant the M104 block, but you will have to rewire.

http://avalanche.realitydns.com/~revol/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6917
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#13 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 10:09 PM
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RE: 190E Vs 300E

MTI:

Let me give you a little more info concerning my previous two questions.

The 190E is a 1993 model and the 300e engine is a 1986 model. Looking at the pics of the engine they appear to be the same in looks. However I know that can be misleading.

What I am trying to do is find a lower miles engine to replace my tired 2.6.

Again Thanks,
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#14 (permalink) Old 03-16-2004, 10:58 PM
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RE: 190E Vs 300E

Just in response to the original question, I have a '90 300TE (W124, 3.0 M103 12 valve) auto with 180,000km and a '90 (one month older than the 300TE) 190E-2.3 Sportline (W201, 2.3 M102 8 valve) 5-speed manual with 223,000km. Both cars are in superb condition and are running perfectly. How do they compare?

The M103 is very quiet and just about the smoothest engine I can think of. The M102 can be heard through the gears and felt at idle. At cruise it too is quiet and smooth but not in the same league as the M103 (despite the fact that due to the 190E being a 5-speed, it actually revs slower than the 300TE for the same cruising speed in top gear).

The M102 feels more torquey and is probably at its best lower in the rev range than the M103. Bear in mind that my M102 (at 2.3) is greater displacement per cylinder than my M103 which would contribute to this difference. The M103 is more potent in the upper rev range and despite the substantial extra weight of the wagon, I would say it is slightly faster accelerating than the 190E.

On the road the 300TE is quiet, smooth and comfortable. It holds the road very well and soaks up bumps like they don't exist but does exhibit body roll when cornered hard. My 190E being a Sportline corners very flat with high levels of adhesion. It has a more sportly feel and is fun to drive, especially in manual like mine. Whilst I would not call the ride hard, it obviously does not give the ride comfort of the 300TE.

Whilst the seats in the Sportline look great, they are not as comfortable as those in the wagon. The W124 is more roomy but still a fairly narrow car and in wagon form is very practical. The W201 is obviously tighter but I find it still acceptable for two adults and two kids. The boot (trunk) is surprisingly large.

The interior in the W124 feels more luxurious and is better finished than that in the W201 even though my W201 has leather whereas my W124 has MB-tex (which is very durable). The W124 does not seem to suffer some of the problems with interior finishes the way the W201 does. My W124 also offers a few more features than my W201.

Maintenance wise there is not much in it. Many of the problems with both the W124 and W201 are associated with extra features (eg. cruise control, climate control, etc). The least troublesome car should be one with the fewest such features. Both engines are very durable and are of almost identical design except for the cylinder count. They therefore both suffer from similar problems (eg. head gaskets). If you plan on covering great distances, the M103 is considered to offer slightly longer life. As mentioned previously, the M103 is a tight fit in the W201. In the W124 it is not difficult to work on (although is a bit tight at the front and around the water pump). The M102 is not difficult to work on.

Overall, my two are quite different. Obviously the differences would not be as great if comparing a standard (rather than Sportline) 190E with a 300E sedan, especially if the 190E was a 2.6 and had an auto tranny. It really comes down to what you want. I don't know about other parts of the world, but here in Oz, W124 prices are coming down towards that of W201s representing good buying considering the W124 offers more car than the W201.

107.023: 350SLC, 3-speed auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex, (sold 2012 after 29 years ownership).
107.026: 500SLC, 4-speed auto, thistle green, green velour.
124.090: 300TE, 4-speed auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex.
201.028: 190E 2.3 Sportline, 5-speed manual, arctic white, blue leather.
201.028: 190E 2.3, 4-speed auto, blue-black, grey MBtex.
201.034: 190E 2.3-16, 5-speed manual, blue-black, black leather.
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#15 (permalink) Old 03-31-2004, 12:15 AM
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RE: 190E Vs 300E

Where can one purchase a topsider and about how much do they run? I have 2 MBZs and love the idea of not having to get under the car to do the ol changes. Thanks.

Tom
90 190E 2.6
90 560SEC
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#16 (permalink) Old 03-31-2004, 10:35 AM
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RE: 190E Vs 300E

Tom, the Topsider is available via online shops, try a Google/Froogle search on them. You should also check with any marine supply shops in your area if you're near the water, as I said, they sell a lot of those things to boat owners with inboards. They usually go for around $50.

BTW, you can make one if you have 1) Wet/Dry Shopvac; 2) plastic gas can big enough to hold 5-6 quarts of oil; 3) brass pressure nipple fitting to attach flexible plastic tubing that will go down the dipstick hole down to the bottom of the oil pan. The Shopvac hose fits to the gas jug's main spout and provides the vaccum. The tube fitting goes on the other side of top of the jug. Works on the same principle as the Topsider, but you don't have to pump, just flick the Shopvac on.
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#17 (permalink) Old 03-31-2004, 06:11 PM
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RE: 190E Vs 300E

Thanks. Just out of curiosity, where is the oil filter on the 190E 2.6? I did a quick look from the top and didn't see it. Is it only visible from the bottom? It is really easy to see it from the top on my 560SEC. Thanks.

Tom
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#18 (permalink) Old 03-31-2004, 09:53 PM
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RE: 190E Vs 300E

The oil filter is vertically mounted at the rear, near the firewall, driver's (left) side of the engine. It might be obscured by the air cleaner housing.
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#19 (permalink) Old 04-02-2004, 05:25 AM
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RE: 190E Vs 300E

I own both a 201 2.0L (1991) & 124 3.0L (1990), and I'll have to go with the 124 simply because its slightly larger. As far a build quality is concerned, they are identical.

Appart from the slightly different chassis both cars are more or less the same, and alot of people here can't even tell the difference.

In fact my cars were ordered to look identical so people think I only have 1.

Go figure.
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#20 (permalink) Old 04-02-2004, 06:28 PM
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RE: 190E Vs 300E

'86 190E 2.3 w 140000miles; '86 300E 3.0 w 94000miles. The 190 is less cumbersome on twisty roads, a more sporty feel without sacrificing the feeling of safety. It feels much lighter than the 300 while driving, but maintains good control--even the beast I have is fun to drive. Whatever you do, follow the standard recommendations of this forum and INSPECT CAREFULLY any vehicle you consider buying. If you miss something that's obvious or ignore pre-inspection warnings or recommendations, you're in for a ride you won't like. These are great cars but a lemon or abused beast will kill you financially. One thing I've learned is that you cannot judge that an old car with low mileage is always good. I think there are many things that have gone wrong with my 1986 300E, which I bought 2 years ago with 62k miles on it, that could be related to the fact that the car didn't get much overall exercise, thus there are hardened seals and so forth.
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