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BALANCE SHAFT ISSUES: READ THIS BEFORE BUYING A W164!!

302K views 337 replies 1 participant last post by  rudeney 
#1 ·
#3 ·
This has been a known problem for a while. Not all are effected, just the ones up to engine #30468993. Any M2729 that falls within the defect range with check engine light and both error 1200 and 1208 will likely need this done. Part number for the repair kit is A2720300013. Sometimes the oil pump is also replaced. I think labor is about 25 hours, not including the 2 oil changes and test drive. Over here depending on your millage you can get post warranty repair credit from MB, full or partial, to fix this problem.
 
#12 ·
I wonder if it would be wise if all W164 owners who have had a repair post it in a common thread and maybe a mod can sticky it so we'll know just how many are being done. Right now, it seems like not a question of 'if?', but of 'when?'.
Oh, and it seems some owners in the C203 forum are having the same issue with their engines as well.
 
#14 ·
Thanks, Wolfgang!! I'm printing it out and filing it. I could not find this info on Startekinfo. I wonder.:rolleyes:

It looks like they're acknowledging a wide range of models and engines affected.
 
#16 ·
My old 2006 ML350 just had this happen about 3 weeks ago. I say old because we only had the car for a year and it had nothing but problems. I contacted the dealer and they paid our remaining balance on the car for trade in and the sales guy gave us his employee discount on a lease of a 2010 ML350 and I couldn't be happier.

In one year after having the front left and right axel replaced, drive shaft and transfer case replaced, valve body of the trans, and now an issue with the balance shaft; I wasn't about to keep this car after the 50k mile mark, not to mention we didn't feel safe in it. The dealer helped us out tremendously by paying off our remaining balance as a trade in so we didn't take a $6k hit.
 
#18 · (Edited)
More good news about my 06 ml350.. its official, looks like I bought a piece of shit. I need to sell it now and throw in the extended warranty free to make the new owner feel warm and fuzzy inside. I've had more than my share of problems with only 25k miles on the car. now, its starting to look like it will be a never ending headache!
Does anyone know if this effects ALL 3.5L engines? ie...the E class E350?
 
#20 ·
I had my car 1 year and I worked with the dealer on them buying it back. Initially they said i was going to have 6k in negative equity to roll over to whatever else I wanted and I was prepared to take the hit. In the end the dealer paid off what I owed and the lease price of my 2010 ML350 was 49,850 (MSRP was 55k) so I got a good deal. The residual after 3 years will be 31k and we plan to buy it after that as long as there aren't any issues. My '06 was also a POS and after 50k miles and all my issues i didn't want to deal with it.

Its worth a shot to try and work with the dealer where you bought your car. I think with me they decided they would rather have a happy 33 year old customer that comes back again and again because of outstanding service and buys more MB's for years or decades. If they didn't help me I would have walked away from Mercedes for good. In the end they will make their money back off me over time and I couldn't be happier right now.
 
#21 ·
I have warranty until March, 2011 and it looks like a ride for me as well. No symptoms from the balance shaft issue but I am experiencing the tell tale vibration of either a pending front differential failure or wheel bearing failure.:(

I deserve it because I knew better.
 
#22 · (Edited)
i have owned my 2006 ml350 for about 2 months. i just spent ton of time on phone with mbusa to get engine serial number. does anyone know where it is located on engine so i can confirm with what mbusa said it is? anyway, with 81k miles, like cmitch, i am NOT as of yet exhibiting the worn sprocket on balance shaft problem. unlike cmitch, i do not have any warranty. tech services at mbusa says not every vehicle without upgraded shaft has a problem. who knows. maybe it just hasn't worn out yet. or maybe mine is not wearing badly. wishful thinking right? she says dealer and mbusa would work with me if and when i have the problem. i have had a good experience with my dealer and suspect there is some truth to that.

She says i could pay to have timing cover removed to check for wear on sprocket, but that would be huge job to pay for so it makes no sense. I wish there was a way to glance at sprocket, but it does not appear possible by my read of service manual dvd.
 
#26 ·
I have owned a ML350 for a year and it has the check engine problem (1200 & 1208). A Mercedes specialist changed the oil and told me I should drive for 2K miles until the problem solved. Another Specialist told me if I drive, my engine will blow up. Does anybody knows what will happen if I drive with this situation?
 
#27 ·
What does he mean 'drive for 2k until the problem is solved'? I don't see how driving it will solve any such issue. Either the Camshaft Position Sensor(s) are genuinely bad OR you have the failing balance shaft. They'll have to remove your timing chain covers to inspect it.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Balance shaft sprocket replacement

I had this done on my 7/05 delivered ML350 (one of the first W164s here) at 3 yrs 11 mos and 39,250 miles. It's a major repair involving pulling the engine and transmission. Took a full 5 days. At the same time my Airmatic pump, relay and valve block were replaced under warranty.

The good news is that it's been flawless the 14 months and 9k miles since. I was very fortunate that both of these failures occurred just before warranty expiration. While this vehicle has otherwise been reliable, an extended warranty might be advisable for many.
 
#30 ·
Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA

You're one of the lucky ones that it happen to fall still under warranty. Imagine being in the pack who's out of pocket expense ranges from $2,000 to $7,000, just out of warranty. Extended warranty is not an option for me because I purchasd my car the same time as you did and the original warranty is expired. I recommed Mercedes stepping up and admitting this is a problem and repairing these vehicles when they come in, of course under certian terms, at their cost. What is terrible -I had my check engine light coming on periodically for a month, when it was still under warranty and the dealer told me it would be hard for them to diagnose the problem when the CEL was not currently on. They did nothing 8 months ago and now I'm out of pocket thousands.
Mercedes knew about the problem years before my warranty expired and kept quiet. My point is they say, "it's just a rare thing for this to happen", well since it's so rare then why wouldn't they keep their customers happy and pay for the fix? I don't think this is rare and time will tell.
You're also lucky, sounds like you have a good dealer, diagnosed your problem promptly and fixed your car right. Horror stories have been told of vehicles that are never the same solid car as before. My car has been in service for this fix for over two weeks now, I should get it back next week, after that I will post my out of pocket cost.
 
#31 ·
Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA

You're one of the lucky ones that it happen to fall still under warranty. Imagine being in the pack who's out of pocket expense ranges from $2,000 to $7,000, just out of warranty. Extended warranty is not an option for me because I purchasd my car the same time as you did and the original warranty is expired. I recommed Mercedes stepping up and admitting this is a problem and repairing these vehicles when they come in, of course under certian terms, at their cost. What is terrible -I had my check engine light coming on periodically for a month, when it was still under warranty and the dealer told me it would be hard for them to diagnose the problem when the CEL was not currently on. They did nothing 8 months ago and now I'm out of pocket thousands.
Have you tried escalating this up the chain to the zone level? It seems like a goodwill warranty is in order with an obvious pattern in a certain range of vehicles.
 
#32 ·
did this job on the clk350 with the 272 engine a couple months ago. a bitch of a job because of all the disconnections required and then take out engine with trans, take off trans to get to ONE miserly bolt at the end of the balance shaft. all that extra work just to get to one bolt, I mean u gotta take trans off, torque conv, flywheel, then this cover and then there it is.
not to mention u gotta take the oil pan off to get timing cover off. whole load of black sealant required.
If anyone is doing a DIY on this just email me at
samsayed@hotmail.com
and I'll be more than happy to help and warn you of potential mistakes that I made that cost money and time. I can do this whole job in about 3 days now. Know it inside out for the CLK w209. If you have something else other than CLK, then I can most certainly help you when you have the engine out of car.
one tip I will state here is that be careful when undoing the centre bolt on the exhaust camshafts; it unbolts in the CLOCKWISE direction. Yes I know you think Ive made a mistake, but it does get undone in the CLOCKWISE direction. The intake gets undone in the conventional anti-clockwise direction. I almost broke a camshaft before I realised it!
Im actually a commercial/corporate lawyer by profession, just really interested in cars plus out of work at moment so that helped. in its own way!
whole job cost around 2000 inc the engine crane and load leveller and other tools.
 
#33 ·
2006 ML 350 Balance Shaft issues

Just got word today from MB Dealer in Nashville that my wife's 06 ML has potential balance shaft issues. Codes 1200,1208 - advised me that to repair was $7,000.00 and not covered under recall or warranty. Suggested I sell/trade vehicle very soon or plan to spend the money! It is out of warranty now with 67,000 miles but was in the shop in April '09 while still in warranty with CEL on and they replaced right camshaft magnet installed right bank exhaust camshaft magnet per DTB S- B - 03.30/08H . My question is what is the best course of action to get MB to help out on this issue? Thanks for any advise here, Dan.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Does your old paperwork when they replaced magnets show what codes it was? If they it was 1200 and 1208 then you have proof problem surfaced under warranty. If not then I think best way is to ask your dealer to call mbusa on your behalf and you could offer to pay $3k of the $7k with of course a free loaner car.

I talked some time ago to mbusa when my vehicle had about that many miles and they said if problem surfaced they would work with me on it. So far I have not had a problem.

Alternatively, you could just trade the vehicle...
 

Attachments

#35 ·
My ML350 has the 1200 and 1208 codes and is out of warrantee. I am now scared! Does anyone know what will happen if I keep driving it with the check engine light on? Will it just stop running one day? Does anyone have an idea how long it can run before it must be repaired?

Thank you!
 
#36 · (Edited)
The above is a great question. I was wondering that myself. Per the document I attached the codes indicate incorrect "positioning of the timing chain driven camshafts relative to the crankshaft..." If this is an interference engine, meaning the valves can hit the pistons then I would say you could ruin the engine. On the other hand if it is not an interference engine then you can't really ruin the engine. Although if it get's out of whack enough it will not run...If it is running then it must mean that while camshafts and crankshaft are not in right position they are not off bad enough to not run. Obviously when the balance shaft wears out it wears out gradually enough that chain can't freewheel.

If it was me...I would probably avoid driving and like I said above I would nego thru dealer with mbusa to fix. Or I would go trade....to non mercedes dealership. Any mercedes dealership will check codes and know what it means. And some non mb dealers might check the codes and make the offer for trade in value.
 
#37 ·
Wow, danc certainly has a good question.

Unlike Porsche, in my experience Mercedes is not very generous once the car is out of warranty. I hope in this case they are different.
 
#38 · (Edited)
The dealer told me that you can run like that for a while but the balance shaft teeth will eventually break apart and ruin the engine. The reason for this is because when the balance shaft was made it was not hardened properly. I just had my 06 ML350 done, out of warranty, but I qualified for "good will" cash through Mercedes because I had all my previous maint./services done through a MB dealer and it had only 56K miles. The dealer took care of contacting and dealing with MB to get the good will cash. The dealer quoted me $7,000 until MB rep. got involed, then the quote went down, after good will cash my out of pocket was $1,900. There is a detail list, including part numbers and labor cost on facebook.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit...3581522026194#!/group.php?gid=113581522026194
It that link doesn't work, let me know or search, Mercedes Benz, balance shaft.
Join to stay up to date on the current info regarding this issue.
 
#40 ·
Balance shaft sprocket symptoms


All I remember is the check engine light. Codes 1200 & 1208 were found.
 
#41 ·
i think it is about time...i don't know what that means for me in mn not having problem yet. the pdf makes the point that vehicle was in essence defective from time of manufacture and was therefore mercedes breaching it's own warranty.

bottom line, i hope this means that we will not have to pay for the repair of balance shaft ever...but i would think there would be a mileage limit. i mean would they cover balance shaft replacement if vehicle goes to 250k miles???
 
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