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Tire Wear

6K views 20 replies 8 participants last post by  rorypff 
#1 ·
Guys, I incorrectly posted that I had tire wear I thought was attributed to control arms the other day… I meant “Tie Rods”.

I replaced the inner and outer tie rod ends 6,000 miles ago along with a set of Monroe front shocks. Attached are pics of my front tire wear on the edges of my brand new Michelins and a shot of the rear tire (no wear). The shop that did the alignment says it’s the shocks?? I doubt that, they are brand new.

The tie rods were cheap chinese parts so I am wondering if that is the issue… I promise I won’t make that mistake again…If that’s the case what are the chances both sides would wear the same??? Could they have done the alignment wrong?

Just wondering if anyone knows what would typically cause this kind of wear, now that I don’t trust another Indie…
Thanks everyone!
 

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#2 ·
A little advice. Trying to properly diagnose an alignment or suspension problem with some pictures is futile, and could be dangerous.

To properly correct a tire wear problem, a tech would ask 15 - 25 questions about history, your driving style, and use of the vehicle,
then test drive it, thoroughly check the integrity of the suspension. Then read the tires to form a educated guess, which 90% of the
time, the initial readings on the alignment machine confirm.

It is not my design or intention to critique a professional front end tech on their work, most have families to support, and the
free market system will prevail. I will say that a lot of shops are skeptical of touching a vehicle that the owner has replaced
parts on, due to insurance and legal issues.

From experience I can tell you that on suspension parts for Mercedes, the only 3 brands to use are Moog, Lemforder or Mercedes,
any other brand is cheaper but has a shorter life span.

In an effort to help you, in general terms, by your descriptions, I suggest the following:

Have a alignment specialist check your car. It sounds like you are having a problem finding one you can trust. Ask them if they
have Mercedes experience, ask for references, if close then ask them if they use a "press bar" for toe in, if they do not know
what that is, keep looking.

1) your tires have shown abnormal wear for quite a while, it could have been spotted much sooner by a trained eye and hands,
and the way it felt driving should have been a clue also. Could be too much toe in, could be several other factors also.
It looks like they are feathering, but without my hands on the tire, I will not say for sure.

2) weak or worn shocks can cause cupping on the tires, so can a poor tire balance, worn control arms, and other conditions also.
At 6,000 miles your Monroe are probably ok if properly installed, but will be checked with a proper diagnosis. The pics do not
show to me that cupping is happening, but without my hands on the tire, I will not say for sure.

Best Regards
 
#4 ·
I agree with the comments regarding the pictures. Get some larger pics of front tire - turn steering to stop and get a good set of pics of both front tires, showing the entire contact area. It may help some.

Do you have a print-out of the last time you performed a 4-wheel alignment with these tires on? If you do, post it.
Are these upgraded wheel/tires - +1, +2, etc?
Is there pulling left/right at normal speeds on a reasonably flat road?
Is the steering centered during normal driving?

Here's my Story: In have had alignment issues on mine also. It was usually the outside edge that was wearing quickly. I was performing alignments ~twice/year and rotating my tires more often than I believed I needed to. I did the ball joints up front and that seemed to fix the problem. During one of my annual out-of-state road trips, the truck was fully loaded along with 5-adults. As I hit the local road and started that 35 mph drive, I felt the truck pulling to one side - I knew immediately that the ball joint helped, but did not fix the problem. 10 Hrs later, I was at the local MB shop at my vacation destination. They traced the issue to a bad tie-rod (I believe it was the outer). The tie-rod was replaced when I got home and problem was solved.

Point of my story is that with tire wear, it could be a host of suspension pieces which could be the problem. I would look at the ball joints also. Witek's and Kustom's comments are right on point.
 
#5 ·
All, I will get some better shots and post them....

Darkmann, I had no issues with the front end wearing tires for the first 140,000 miles. Even when I knew the orginal tie-rods were shot I wasnt wearing tires. I replaced them (with junk), had the car aligned, and now my tires are a mess at 6,000 miles. The outer edges are is were the wear is....

Having a an alignment done twice a year is abnormal....my car tracks straight, doesnt pull, and feels fine...no issues you would know about other than the tire wear..
 
#8 ·
Replace Tier Rods



In that case, you are probably right that it is the tie rods. Replace with OEM tie rods (ask them to check the ball joints at same time), set tire pressure, redo alignment (full tank and request printed readout) and go driving - check that steering is neutral when going straight ahead, otherwise have the alignment redone. It is entirely possible that fixing the tie rods may end up opening up something else, but one step at a time.
 
#6 ·
Took another shot of the tires, butr quite honestly, the one I posted are the best. The tires are fine and wearing perfectly except for the first 1/2 inch of the outter edge...both sides....both sides lead me to beleive it was aligned right....
 
#7 ·
Where's the print out? I always make sure the car is full of fuel and tell them to align without lifting the car. I like the car to be to be 100% settled. You probably are not going to corner balance but are your ride heights ok? I seem to remember that my old Porsche manuals required sand bagging to simulate weight in the car. Are your wheels true?
 
#9 ·
JoeRJGR, your alignment belief is incorrect, it needs to be checked and properly aligned for how you use the vehicle in the
majority of cases, if out of normal usage.

Designo?, to do a proper alignment the car must be raised to check suspension parts, and sensor calibration, out of round tires,
and check for bent wheels. The sandbags were usually only used if the driver was over 200 lbs. Corner balancing for a ML is
a waste of time & money, no benefit on a road truck. Checking ride height is a standard procedure in a proper alignment.

Everything Darkmann has said to check is part of a proper alignment.
 
#11 ·
As mentioned, really cant get a better "shot"...if I get the whole tire in the picture, you really would not be able to see the wear. No way is it normal...the car has 150,000 miles on it. I bought it with 30,000 miles on it and they had new conti's on it they lasted for 55,000 miles. At that point I put Bridgestone Duellers on it and they lasted 60,000 miles. Edges of tires should not be showing wear at 5,000 miles.

and Kustom...my driving patterns and how I use the vehicle is the same as 99.9% of most people....I drive on the street at the speed limit on local streets and highways....I used to race 944's and I am well aware of how to do a "track" alignment, but as mentioned earlier, corner balancing and such are not required for trucks....so the only other thing you must be getting at it is do I use the vehicle off road....I dont, but how would an alignment be different in that respect?
 
#12 ·
No, this is not normal wear. Tire material is moved. Looks like a feather. Reason I wanted to see other (inner) side is that low tire pressure will cause same type of wear on both edges of the tire.

Positive camber or too match toe is most likely problem. Find a shop that can get before and after alignment values.
 

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#13 ·
JoeRJGR, your assumption that I infered off road is incorrect, I figured maybe you tow a trailer, which depending on
the weight and hitch can affect the front end geometry of an ML.

Your ML needs a proper and correct alignment, since you said it is driven normally. Your tire wear is not normal.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I think you need tyre balancing & repeat alignment check. That is if you exchanged rear right with front right & rear left with front left. Cross rotation may not be appropriate for your vehicle. Hoping it doesn't call for throat slashing new tyres.

Or you just simply take the tyres back the way they were.
 
#19 ·
Here is the alignment printout...not perfect, but not horrible either. I really think it is the cheap inner and outer tie-rod ends I put in. I would love to have someone else do it, but quite honestly dont trust anyone. Here are some of the responses I have gotten on this issue from various mechanics. I never take my car to the shop and this is why!

1. My Indie who did the first alignment and put the tires on: Shocks are bad ( they had 5,000 miles on them).

2. Guys who just did the alignment. All OK no problem.

3. High end Indie who does ferrarris and exotic cars. - Take it to the dealer for an alignment. When they cant do it, have them tell you why then bring it to me....

No one knows or cares enough to work on my vehicle.....it sucks
 

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#20 ·
Just got back from the Indy who did last alignment and said everything was OK. He promised to give me a 6 month "warranty" on the alignment and would personally take a look at the front end. He put a crow bar under each tire and pulled up and the car showed movement in the lower ball joints. I have heard that the crow bar thing is not the way to do this, but assuming ther are correct here is their estimate.

$148 for Moog Ball Joints (I can getthem for $61 on Amazon), $340 labor each side, for a total of $976.

For that kind of money I can replace the tie rods, ball joints, and all 4 control arms, plus do the rear shocks while I am at it....this would take me a bit of time, and the car has 152,000 on the clock...but no way Im paying them $900
 
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