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Towing with my W163 ML 500

12K views 45 replies 9 participants last post by  mattml430 
#1 ·
Hello there i am new to this site, so hello to everybody. I am from Australia and to get anywhere requires long distance travel.

I have a MY04 ML500 with 156000 on the clock. By the way i will be talking in metric, sorry about this.

I have been told not to tow anything with my car, told to get a Landcruiser. I have read forums where people say never tow with my car, why is that. My son, who races a drag car, and i have just done a round trip of 2600 kl towing his drag car, from Canberra to Brisbane. The only time i felt the trailer was when having to brake hard. Why do people talk about the fact these cars are not for towing, i had no problems towing the 2500 kilo weight, this is top end of the weight. Does anybody else here tow with their W163.

I have another question about transmission fluid. I am very fussy with my car and do almost all the work myself. I am wanting to change the transmission fluid but i am confused as to what type to use. I am told 75-85 i am also told 85-95. The only problem is i can only find 75-90, is this ok to use.
 
#2 ·
#4 ·
I personally would not be afraid to tow anything reasonable with a larger v-8. The trannies can more than adequately handle the load you just want to make sure that the trans is topped off and the fluid in the transfer case and rears are fresh and topped. Just a maintenance issue. Anything properly maintained will last. Good luck.
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hey Ozpom....welcome & yes it can tow, well !

Hello there Ozpom:

Welcome to the Benzworld forums.

Lots of great fellow MB owners here to help out....some Indy techs / shop owners - MB dealer Techs from time to time, too !

I have a similar suv, our 2002 ML500, bought 'new to us' in Houston just a year ago, with 102k miles on the clock.

Truck was in immaculate shape, no sign of abuse, but not much in the way of maintenance records, either.

So i had to ask a lot around here, read the manual, google things, etc.

We already had our beloved E320 wagon, MY 2000, that has a similar themed V-6, very close to the 5.0l V-8 in the ML500, so a lot of maintenance & fixes are similar or identical on both rigs. (A decent argument, to me, for having both in our garage.)

FYI, the code for the engines is V-6: M112 V-8: M113

These both share the same basic tranny, the strong & reliable 722.6 Mercedes 5 speed Auto.

This tranny is AKA the '5-Gtronic' or the NAG1 - 5AW580 (the latter # being strength in Torque, Ft/lb), so the one in our e320 is actually a 5AW330 (if memory serves), for the lesser output of the V-6.

See here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_5G-Tronic_transmission

and here:

Good Advice For Owners Of A 5G-TRONIC Automatic Transmission Equipped Vehicle

So, there is a lot of strength in the drivetrains and as you've found out, yes you can tow.

Of course you need to have a proper tow set up in terms of MB or compatible hitch.

I'm curious if you used an Equalizing, load-levelling type hitch on your 2500KG tow adventure ?

I've only towed about 3000#, just last week in fact. The ML did great, power wise, and I just used a basic 2" ball, no load leveling bars at all.

(My only negative was the worn out shocks - new ones on the way - but it made me have to check my speed on the rougher surfaces as too much bouncing was very uncomfortable.)

Btw, on fluids:

Check and 10-4 on the sticking to the spec 236.10 ATF.

So much so that I don't thing the later fluids that meet 236.12 or 14 are as appropriate as our trannies weren't made for the ultra slippery later fluids that were made for the later 7 or 9 speed units.

Problem is that dealers tend to stock the newer fluids & not the older ones, so you have to go to extra work to find them. Extra cost too, sometimes.

I did my research & found a creative way around this, fyi.

The Chrysler factor spec for this same Tranny is ATF+4, a Full Synthetic fluid that is licensed worldwide and made by 40+lubricant companies including most of the big ones like Castrol, Ashland (Valvoline), and many more.

I pulled the fluid spec sheets for about half dozen of these ATF+4 and compared their specs to the actual MB 236.10 specs for the 'Bevo-List MB' fluids, and what do ya know, they match !?

I'm taking the Hot & Cold Viscosity #, Viscosity Index, Pour points, all the crucial specs, are identical.

We know the adage: "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....."

So, that gives another option. I suggest you check around.

You may find the actual 236.10 fluid reasonably from a local MB dealer. Or they could ask $25 per litre

Me ?

Locally I can get ATF+4 in SuperTech @ Wal-Mart for $4.30 / qt

Or O'reillys ATF+4 in Gallon for $24.95 or Valvoline ATF+4 for $ 7 / quart.

Just did the fluid drain / refill + new filter / drain / refill on both e-wagon & ML.

The boxes shift & run flawlessly now. E-wagon had 45k on old fluid.

ML: ?? Looked ok but had to be sure, lots of towing + long highway high speed driving.

Of late I checked Amazon and they listed both Febi ATF and a new brand, Ravenol (the latter just made the revised MB Bevo list) as compatible to 236.10

My favorite Indie German shop here uses FEBI ATF exclusively.

Febi is a unit of Bilstein.

Anyhow, that's just some food for thought & what I've learned.

I just got done adding some larger upgrade tires to our ML, up to the larger size 265-70R17.

Next week I install the new shocks:

Front: KYB 349-226 Excel G (exact OE replacement)

Rear: SACHS SuperTouring complete Coil / Gas Shock (exact OE replacement)

Once done, I plan to tow up to the 5000# tow limit.

I'm kind of excited as this is my first time upgrading a Mercedes suspension.

Please keep us updated on how you fare.

Got any pictures of your Rig ?

Cheers - David in East Texas
 
#7 ·
Hello there Ozpom:

Welcome to the Benzworld forums.

Lots of great fellow MB owners here to help out....some Indy techs / shop owners - MB dealer Techs from time to time, too !

I have a similar suv, our 2002 ML500, bought 'new to us' in Houston just a year ago, with 102k miles on the clock.

Truck was in immaculate shape, no sign of abuse, but not much in the way of maintenance records, either.

So i had to ask a lot around here, read the manual, google things, etc.

We already had our beloved E320 wagon, MY 2000, that has a similar themed V-6, very close to the 5.0l V-8 in the ML500, so a lot of maintenance & fixes are similar or identical on both rigs. (A decent argument, to me, for having both in our garage.)

FYI, the code for the engines is V-6: M112 V-8: M113

These both share the same basic tranny, the strong & reliable 722.6 Mercedes 5 speed Auto.

This tranny is AKA the '5-Gtronic' or the NAG1 - 5AW580 (the latter # being strength in Torque, Ft/lb), so the one in our e320 is actually a 5AW330 (if memory serves), for the lesser output of the V-6.

See here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_5G-Tronic_transmission

and here:

Good Advice For Owners Of A 5G-TRONIC Automatic Transmission Equipped Vehicle

So, there is a lot of strength in the drivetrains and as you've found out, yes you can tow.

Of course you need to have a proper tow set up in terms of MB or compatible hitch.

I'm curious if you used an Equalizing, load-levelling type hitch on your 2500KG tow adventure ?

I've only towed about 3000#, just last week in fact. The ML did great, power wise, and I just used a basic 2" ball, no load leveling bars at all.

(My only negative was the worn out shocks - new ones on the way - but it made me have to check my speed on the rougher surfaces as too much bouncing was very uncomfortable.)

Btw, on fluids:

Check and 10-4 on the sticking to the spec 236.10 ATF.

So much so that I don't thing the later fluids that meet 236.12 or 14 are as appropriate as our trannies weren't made for the ultra slippery later fluids that were made for the later 7 or 9 speed units.

Problem is that dealers tend to stock the newer fluids & not the older ones, so you have to go to extra work to find them. Extra cost too, sometimes.

I did my research & found a creative way around this, fyi.

The Chrysler factor spec for this same Tranny is ATF+4, a Full Synthetic fluid that is licensed worldwide and made by 40+lubricant companies including most of the big ones like Castrol, Ashland (Valvoline), and many more.

I pulled the fluid spec sheets for about half dozen of these ATF+4 and compared their specs to the actual MB 236.10 specs for the 'Bevo-List MB' fluids, and what do ya know, they match !?

I'm taking the Hot & Cold Viscosity #, Viscosity Index, Pour points, all the crucial specs, are identical.

We know the adage: "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....."

So, that gives another option. I suggest you check around.

You may find the actual 236.10 fluid reasonably from a local MB dealer. Or they could ask $25 per litre

Me ?

Locally I can get ATF+4 in SuperTech @ Wal-Mart for $4.30 / qt

Or O'reillys ATF+4 in Gallon for $24.95 or Valvoline ATF+4 for $ 7 / quart.

Just did the fluid drain / refill + new filter / drain / refill on both e-wagon & ML.

The boxes shift & run flawlessly now. E-wagon had 45k on old fluid.

ML: ?? Looked ok but had to be sure, lots of towing + long highway high speed driving.

Of late I checked Amazon and they listed both Febi ATF and a new brand, Ravenol (the latter just made the revised MB Bevo list) as compatible to 236.10

My favorite Indie German shop here uses FEBI ATF exclusively.

Febi is a unit of Bilstein.

Anyhow, that's just some food for thought & what I've learned.

I just got done adding some larger upgrade tires to our ML, up to the larger size 265-70R17.

Next week I install the new shocks:

Front: KYB 349-226 Excel G (exact OE replacement)

Rear: SACHS SuperTouring complete Coil / Gas Shock (exact OE replacement)

Once done, I plan to tow up to the 5000# tow limit.

I'm kind of excited as this is my first time upgrading a Mercedes suspension.

Please keep us updated on how you fare.

Got any pictures of your Rig ?

Cheers - David in East Texas
Thanks mate for your very informative response. Let me just say a couple of things,

When it comes to the towing, i really have no idea what you are talking about, and i am not being rude. What we did was look at the weight of the car and then combined weight of trailer and car, followed simple instructions from some caravan people, hooked it up, and away we went. Thats how scientific we got. Thats how we found out the towing thing worked, nothing too flash just had a go.

As for the Dif, oil im astill confused.
 
#6 ·
I'm in Melbourne and have a trailer manufacturing business. I've towed all types of trailers with my ML 430 for the last 10 years from 750kg to 3500kg. When I moved from Brisbane to Melbourne I towed my tipper down here at over 3000kg. I knew it was there but made it with 0 problems. I have a 3500kg car trailer it also tows with no problem. I do a transmission oil change about every 50k. Look after it and it will serve you well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#10 ·
Back to you mate....

Ok, I looked in my ML owners manual.

Transfer Case: Dexron 3 (ATF)

Differentials: 85w90 Gear Oil

I used 75w90 Full Synthetic Gear Oil. I looked at the specs, they looked great.

Couldn't find Full Synthetic 85w90 locally, ergo using the next slightly lighter grade.

Did you know you can download a full owners manual from the MB website ?

It will come in .pdf format to be read on computer or other device.

MB probably has a specific website link for 'Non-US ML models'.

On the hitch, the kind I refer to have extra 'spring bars' to more fully distribute weight off the ball / hitch part alone, to the vehicle axles evenly, like this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ree...sL3TAhXlx4MKHfD5CmsQ_AUICSgC&biw=1152&bih=611

These come in different weight versions:

3500#
5000#
10000#
12000#

Class I-4

So that's what I asked about.

If you keep at or near 50% of any vehicle's max tow capacity, you can pretty much skip this setup.

As one approaches the max tow rating, like the 5000# max of the ML, it becomes more beneficial to overall towing safety.

For example I've used my 97 Dodge Cummins Ram Truck (4x4, 2500) to tow a load of up to 24,000# in both Bumper Pull configuration & Gooseneck (ball in bed).

To do so safely required quite a bit of 'tow equpment' including a specialty bumper type hitch that was like a 'One Way Hinge' that by virtue of it's design was 'Sway Cancelling' - no push on the trailer due to winds, etc could initiate sway, only from the tow vehicle side:

Known as the "Hensley Arrow Tow Hitch"

https://hensleymfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/hitchdetail.gif

Thus, if the tow rig was fully able to handle the weight, things were safe.

My bumper pull RV was a 38' tandem axle TT - monstrously long unit !

(Had to add 19.5" Medium duty Truck Tires & helper springs / sway bar to allow Ram Truck to handle the 24k #)

Now, the ML tow set up will be simple & easy compared to all the 'rigging' I had to do on our Dodge Ram tow set-up.

So far, I haven't chatted with any ML owners who are towing a 'heavy-ish' small Travel Trailer at the max level, using a Weight Distributing hitch.

Was hoping to at some point, just to get impressions / ideas - would like to obtain a compact TT to pull later this Fall, perhaps.

Hope some of this is helpful to you, Mate.

Cheers from East Texas - David :grin
 
#11 ·
ozpom, I will make it sweet & short. These are the facts (not opinions)
Tranny takes MB approval sheet 236.14
Transfer case takes MB approval sheet 236.10
Front & Rear Diff takes MB approval sheet 235.74, 75W-85
Nowhere, MB says it is OK to use the oil that was used 15 years ago.
Matt's post shows it all.
Anything else you hear is an opinion, not a fact. Use only MB approved fluids.
 
#12 ·
Ok thanks for that.

I really have no idea what brand or approval product i should use. I suppose what i mean is do i use for example a Castrol brand or a Mobil brand. Thats what i mean. Its nice for people to quote numbers and i really do thank you all for this, but im basically a simple guy and what i need is a consensus of what is the best brand to use.

I dont want to start flame wars or anything like that, but i suppose people are people and some topics get under the collar.
 
#14 ·
Not sure where this thread is headed, but KYB did all of the rear shock/spring coil overs for every W163. Sachs was never the genuine OE part during production.
Every single rear complete spring and shock that I have taken off a W163 had the KYB tags on it and the genuine MB replacement had the same KYB tags/stickers on them.

Nothing wrong with Sachs. I love their products and they will probably work very well. However they were never genuine OE MB suppliers for building the W163 models.
 
#19 ·
Much of the fluids made are made by corporations like Mobil, Fuchs, Pentosian, Red Line, Valvoline and Castrol just to name a few who seek and obtain the approval ratings of MB and are listed on the approved list. Of course with every approval is the payment of funds for this approval. But they are of quality or they would not be approved regardless of payment. If you can afford the vehicle you can afford to use approved fluids. If you don't you'll wish you had. Good luck.
 
#20 ·
Ah well the last statement you made proves my point, you own a merc so you can afford etc etc. This is not the case with me. I bought a 2004 ML 500 last year because it had 7 seats, i needed the seats because i have 5 grand children and i do the school run. I wanted a Landcruiser GXL with the extra seats but they were too expensive and all had mileage over 250000 K,s.

I am almost 72 and i am on the aged pension, so yes i bought a Merc, but it was out of need as my children live out in the bush and a car just doesnt work on some of the roads, especially after it has rained. The towing has come about this year due to my sons racing, so i am not a rich so and so, i am on a budget like most people so dont tell me what i can and cant afford. I find your last remark offensive and just shows the typical attitude you get when you talk to mechanics and all they see is dollar signs.

Just because you havent heard of Nulon doesnt mean its no good.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Ozpom let's be clear here. I do all my work myself, I'm from the coal region and have sent three to college and grad school on my dime so please do not assume that I am wealthy and can therefore afford to have a dealer work on the car. I can't afford a dealer but I have a close friend who is an indie who used to build rat motors with me back in the late 60s and early 70s and he is the best, so I have mechanical knowledge and I am 65. But I love the vehicles and treat them well so they last. You are free to use whatever lubricants you chose that is up to you. And your correct the fact that I haven't heard of Nulon doesn't mean it's a bad lubricant and I never suggested that. And I find your comments presumptuous, short sighted and clearly without thought. Good luck.
 
#26 ·
Hey mate calm down a bit, what made you think that i was assuming everybody was rich because i dont. I dont understand why you guys are getting a bit hot under the collar. I am trying to learn about mine and i thought asking questions here, and expressing my opinion, would be fine, it seems not.

What i have expressed is what i know about the cost of running a Merc, as i said earlier, if i could have got a Landcruiser for what i paid for this car i would have. I didnt so i need to know about the car i have, i know all about the Cruisers and how to work on them, i know bugger all about the Merc, thats why i ask and thats why i hate comments that assume because i own a Merc i can afford it, that is short sighted and very clearly without any thought for me.
 
#25 ·
Thanks mate, i have used both, but have stuck with Nulon. I just find it runs a little better, but what do i know i just use it because i like their products. I also use their coolant and trannie fluid.

Give it a go, you never know mate. Oh yes some people here dont know what SuperCheap is, for those people its a store that only specialises in motor vehicles and camping stuff.
 
#31 ·
Hey Ozpom:

Sorry Mate, we don't mean to confuse you ! Or talk down to you, or to each other (most of us don't, anyhow...).

Speaking personally, just trying to share a bit of what I've found to work well on our ML500, and I could add generally, my 240D, 190e, 300SD, all the other Benzes we've run over the years.

Once these rigs are "out of warranty" (which virtually ALL here are, duh), you may run any fluids you want, of any manufacture, as it's YOUR rig.

It would be very wise, of course, to get the very closest spec locally available equivalent Fluid, and if nothing is, then maybe you mail order one that is.

I'm sure your Aussie Full Synthetics are of great quality, or you and your buddies would have some fried engines on display !

Meaning, if it's working for your other fine vehicles, the Benz will probably handle it nicely, too.

Apologies if some of us Americans have the tendency to try to 'pick the fly poop out of the pepper shaker' - and get rude in the process - there really is no excuse.

If you think the Fluid Wars get hot around here, sometimes, you should have been here for The Donald vs Hillary screaming match, anywhere in the great 'ole USA.

Best Warm Regards,

David in East Texas

PS: I did make an apparent factual error earlier on, when I stated that SACHS shocks are OEM. It appears that KYB are OEM. I know my ML has them on the front & I can't see the rears in place. I stand corrected.
 
#41 ·
Hi Dave
Yes the old girl new it was there but towed it beautifully. I don't use any sway bars or load levellers. When I build my car trailers I run the axles about 12" behind centre and put long draw bars on them. Empty I can tow that at 120kph with no issues. Towing the van I sat on about 95kph as the Ml just felt happy at that speed. It towed perfectly really. With 4 wheel brakes on the trailer it stopped as normal. Fuel consumption was around 19.5L/100km.
Total weight of the trailer loaded was around 3600kg. The trailer is rated to 3500 kg. Little bit over weight. The van is 2050 tare weight but it is refrigerated it the back so that would ad 3/400kg.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#42 ·
19.5L/100km, careful, here comes the EPA :D I wonder if that's less than the combined mileage off the ML and the Sprinter if they ran separately :D

Beyond the obvious load distribution issue on overweight loads, the next thing that would possibly suffer would be the transmission. As long as the transmission stays cool, tow away!
 
#43 ·
Funny you say that because we said the same thing. Normally on a trip the Ml will run at about 11.5L/100. The sprinter would probably be around the 10 mark aswell. So the EPA can shove it, I was actually saving the ozone. Lol. Engine temp sat at 80 unless we hit a hill And then only got to just under 90.
 
#45 ·
Hey Matt: Question on your brake controller.....

I was really curious to know about what brake controller you use in the ML & any details you can share about hooking it up.

I have a Prodigy one in my Cummins Ram Truck, but didn't do the hookup.

On the ML, hoping to do it myself, but unclear about choices & if there may already be a harness in place to hook to.

I know this: there is a US standard round 7 pin trailer wiring connector already in the back near hitch.

I haven't used it in the 7 pin config, but do have a 7 to 'Flat 4' for basic trailer lighting - that works perfectly for lights on our small trailer.

Appreciate your input on this one !

David in E. Texas
 
#46 ·
I use the prodigy P3 in the Ml but have found any of the prodigies all work well.
I have rewired a lot of American boat trailers and have to say the way you guys wire up trailers is horrible. Sorry lol.
I rip it all out and start again. We use the 7 flat plug or the large 7 round. Caravans use the 12 pin flat plug. The controllers are not hard to wire up. Basic ignition power and run a 4mm wire to the rear. And tap into the brake light somewhere.


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