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Lifting the ML (Need advice & Help)

25K views 46 replies 16 participants last post by  Clvannoy1 
#1 ·
Need to some help on this one, from people that have lifted, or fitted a bit larger tires on their W163’s. I am not looking for something huge in a lift/tire but I want a bit more ground clearance, and a bit more suitable tire for the many unpaved roads here in BC Canada. There are a few threads on here about this, but most of them many years ago, but I thought I start one with my questions here.

As a start, right now I have the stock Pirelli 285/50/R18 on my ML55 which with the proper (inch) conversion/diameter is a 29.5 tire. There is plenty of room from the top of the wheel to the wheel frame on the car. I have been looking at tires, and from both a cosmetic and performance standpoint I want to fit the 285/60/R18 BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A KO2.

Using a tire calculator, https://tiresize.com/height-calculator/ going from 50-60 would make this a 31.5 diameter tire. That is a 2.3 increase from the stock tires I have on now. I went down to my “tire guy” today and wanted to place the order, but he told me to investigate a bit more and gave me a few things to double check before. I mentioned I frequently use this forum, and have gotten great help here before, so here are my questions/concerns/advice.

1. Would this tire fit without a lift? If not, I have spoken to a company in Germany called ORC, and they make a rear +1 inch lift kit, but its $300 dollars, but that would lift the back, as I understand the front can also be raised about +1-2 inch or so via torsion bar adjustments.

2. My “tire guy” mentioned my ML “might” have electronic steering, which would be messed up with a larger tire? He also said the transmission could “blow” because of the different new ratio not programmed into the computer. Could that programming be done? Or is it needed?

3. Would the odometer be off? Could it be corrected, is it a bit deal?

4. I have included one image below from another user from mbworld.org, I sent him a message directly a few weeks ago but haven’t heard back. He wrote in the post that he did a torsion bar “indexing” is this the same as adjusting the torsion bars? Or a different thing all together? The link to that thread is https://mbworld.org/forums/m-class-w...-lift-m-2.html

More on that thread I mentioned in point 4. This is what he wrote on there

”Thanks to all of you for contributing to this lifting of the ML W163 series. Yes, the Torsion indexing works. I've replaced the Torsion Bushings on driver and passenger sides, indexed the Torsion to about 3mm initially it was at 3.8 mm with the factory 17" wheels and 275/55R17 tire. Now that the Torsion indexed to 3mm, it raised the vehicle by 3" front and back and put new tires BF Goodrich KO2 275/70/R17 without any rubbing issues. Works and looks great.”

According the same tire diameter calculations, his tire diameter with the BFG KO2 he put on (275/70/R17) would be 32.2 that would be larger than the tire I am trying to fit “31.5” and he did it without mentioning any transmission/steering issues”

Might have a few more Q’s, but would greatly appreciate any help from people that have done this. Thank you!
 

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#3 ·
I have 285/75R16 tires on my 1998 ML, which after my research seemed to be the largest possible without further modifications. They are 32.8 inches tall, according to the tire calculators, and they fill the wheel wells nicely. I had always been bothered by the vast amount of space around the tires with the stock size on. I did tighten the torsion bars to raise the front a bit. I am happy with them, and have had them on now for a couple years. They did initially rub in the rear until the inner fender liners (plastic tubs) wore down somewhat. I have had my ML offroad a few times (see avatar), and in my experience these do not articulate at all, so there is very little problem with it stuffing the larger tires up into the wheel wells. I do have a rub at full turn, and so I just back off at that point.

I will say that my speedometer (and thus odometer) is off by about 10% now, but since my ML is over 200K miles,I'm not likely going to be using this to my advantage on resale or anything. I figure I have the intellectual capacity to add 10% to my indicator readout if I need to know accurate speed, and I occasionally recheck my assumptions with a speedometer app on my iPhone.

I say get whatever tires make you happy, and as long as they are 32.8 inches or less, you will have my level of issues, or less.

I would be careful of very aggressive mud treads, as they may have lugs sticking out further and might rub worse.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for that, given that your 32.8 setup did rub a bit initially, then stopped makes me feel way more comfortable with my potential 31.5 inches diameter tire. That is 1.3 inches less than yours, so i should have zero issues then, might not even need to lift the rear as i initially planned for.

Any issues with power steering / transmission issues?
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
What is 'rim offset' on Factory 6 spoke wheels on '02 ML500 ?....

Thank you if anyone can tell me what this # is.

I'm investigating the idea of running larger tires on our 2002 ML500.

On that calculator below is asks for 'rim offset', so knowing that would help.

I was at Sams & Wally World yesterday, and found what would be an moderate upgrade in width & height tires compared to what it has now.

Currently: Goodyear Fortera 245/65R17 (SUV - sport) on 17x8.5 factory MB rims.

Proposed:

Sams Club: Goodyear All Terrain Adventure 265/70R17

Wal-Mart: Goodyear Wrangler Advantage P265/70R17

also avail in: LT 265/70R17 Load Range C (6 ply for Half Ton trucks)

[I think those are near identical tires, made by Goodyear for each retail outlet. Pretty comparable to BFG's. Reviews for the WM version are 4.7 out of 5 stars from lots of users]

I believe both tires are approx 31.5" tall.

The current tire is said to be 29.5" (my tape shows 28.5")

So thanks if anyone knows that Offset # that would be great.

Also, is there any reason the 02, compared to Bernard's 1998 ML, might object to a difference in tire diameter ?

Is there any 'tech wizardry' in the 2002 model, that such a change might mess up ?

Thanks a lot for any help !

David in East Texas :wink
 
#8 ·
Thank you ....for any input.....David

Hi my ML500 2002 is running on 20inch rim

20x8.5 , 5x112 ET38

I would give u my tyre specs when I get home if u are thinking of upgrading your rims as well. It raise the ML by a little and it looks taller too.

Thaiedwin:

Actually I'm just going to stick with the 17" rims for now. But I appreciate that you're running a larger tire and it's working for you.

Any funny issues you've noticed, when switching to larger setup ?

Also, what is that 2nd # you gave, that I bolded - I don't know what that is.

What is your overall diameter ?

Can you post a pic of your truck running that ?

Sounds like you may have gone lower profile, aka a 'street look' - correct ?

Thanks - David in East Texas
 
#10 ·
Ok that makes sense....

and the ET 38 should be the offset of 38mm, correct ?

I did locate & peruse my ML Owners Manual and it says I've either got a 47 or 52mm offset.

It wasn't clear to me, which was which, as it was referring to both "Winter Rim / Tire" and Normal Rim / Tire combo.

The pics look nice...garage kept too, nice.

I have a humble carport, for now.

Looks like the same 'Beige' paint on your ML. To me ours looks more 'Gold Metallic' than Beige but that's what Mercedes calls it !

Cheers - David in East Texas
 
#13 ·
Operation Larger Tires ML500 is gathering info....

....here's the plan:

1) Order cool, non normal, highly rated brand All Terrain tires from Amazon. Like:

Nokian AT, or Cooper or Hankook - they all get 4.5 stars +

2) Get the Harbor Freight Manual Tire Changer & Aluminum Bubble Balancer & weights

3) Mount & Balance my own tires !

Why, sane minds might ask ?

Well, here's a few reasons:

It's total DIY - I mean who mounts their own tires ?

You can be in an exclusive club ! It's not as rare as a Mercedes owner who services their own car, but close !

No dumb Tire Center managers telling me: "You can't run that tire" or "Sorry our liability Insurance won't let us exceed the factory tire spec" or similar bullfeathers reasons to deny my rights of 'Re-tirement' !

You might say, I'm fed up with "Red Tape" and going to 'Drain the Swamp" & going to "Make my ML GREAT AGAIN"

Talk about 'TRUMP-ing high tire prices', ya know !

I think I'll save pretty big, too, probably around $150 + and have a couple of cool tools to use in the future.

These tire tools break down for storage.

But the reviews are promising - tons of YouTube videos showing guys using the HFT Manual Tire Changer to mount car, truck, tractor & ATV tires with ease.

And, if the Zombie Apocalypse ever materializes, I can change tires, electricity free - great cottage industry, even.

LOL - just havin' some fun.

But I just may do this....Cheers - David in East Texas
 
#14 ·
The bigger the tyre the harder it will be to balance. Not saying it can't be done but you are very keen attempting to change the rubber on your car. I have had to do it to one wheel before and that was not by choice I must say. I haven't seen the tools your talking about but they must be good. I would hunt for a shop that will do it. Your fun may turn to frustration.
Good luck though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#15 ·
You may be right....

...but I'm normally game to try something new.

Especially when the stores just keep jacking up the labor prices, have limited offerings & refuse to do what the customer wants or needs, not just what their 'corporate' policy dictates.

Plus they just opened up a Harbor Freight Tools store here in our small east Texas town, and I'm keen to help them keep open & selling stuff. Already have most standard tools, so this is something I've never owned before. The reviews are pretty upbeat about how simple mounting & balancing tires is - the manual nature just means it's slower and shops have to do things fast when the work is backed up.

For the DIY guy at home, who cares if it takes a bit longer.

Anyways, we'll see...The bare cost of these tools is less than the Labor & markup on the tires from the dealer.

:laugh
 
#16 · (Edited)
moemoe

ive been running 265.70.17 for over a year...maxxis bighorn mud tire... 31.7" on my ml320

the rear of your truck is approx .5" lower than my ml500 (if i recall correctly) and my ml320 is lower than the ml500 so possibly the same rear height as your 55....

its the best thing ive done and works perfect, a little less weight to haul around than the 285 size and since you have a 55 it might be perfect for you also to run the 31.5

when traveling 65mph my spedo reads 60.... just download an app on your phone which reads speed via gps

the BEST free mod ive done to my ml is delete the front sway bar which takes 20 minutes.... you can disconnect it and leave it in there to test the feel.... i also disconnected my rear sway bar. try running 25-30psi in your new tires and your truck will ride like a dream.... detaching the front sway bar doesnt adversely effect highway handling a ton, ... having both sways disconnected you should be a little careful on the highway.. the rear sway you can disconnect one side (takes 5minutes) and reattach if you dont like the feel

when cranking the front torsen bar to lift the front use a 19mm and lift the front on jack stands or with a jack... if you lift too much its possible your shocks will extend to maximum after rolling over a bump at speed ... if this happens during the test drive lower the bar

you should be able to find rear lift spacers for a lower cost, numerous guys on here have made them themselves... ive also thought about doing a custom rear threaded coil over sleeve in the rear ...
 
#17 · (Edited)
re indexing means to remove and re install the torsen bar ... when installing you rotate it one or two spines from its original position...

i bet you will be fine without reindexing and without a spacer in the rear , this is unless you plan on rock crawling
 
#18 · (Edited)
Im a little late to this thread but I have an 2005 ML500 and have been running 32" tires since the summer. I regularly drive on asphalt, dirt and sand and really enjoy the increased capabilities. I had ZERO issues with this bigger size. I don't think anybody expects to see an ML drive anywhere on the beach. Put it in low range turn off traction control and its just a blast. I also ran oversized tires on my ML430. Just go for it!

edit - the tire size I'm running is LT265/70R17 and they are 31.6". Kumho Road Venture AT51 @$140/tire. I have been happy with them. Although next time I may just spring for K02's and one size up. XD
 
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#20 ·
I don't even think my "oversized" tires even look oversized. To me they just look right. There is a touch more road noise at highway speeds. I bought this car with 22" wheels and low profile tires. It definitely had a different driving dynamic then. Now the car is more comfortable and yet its not too soft or sloppy. I would never go back to stock diameter. Living in Hawaii this is the right choice to be able to go anywhere.
 

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#22 · (Edited)
Who are you responding too? My tires are 265x70... so not too narrow and certainly taller at almost 32". I think the iphone is distorting but yeah I took that picture to show how "RIGHT" oversized tires look. Stock tires look weird to me now. You certainly need over-sized tires around here to deal with muddy roads and sandy beaches.
 
#24 ·
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#26 ·
Yo ringo what size tires are you running. Did you remove your bumper cover to fit bigger the bigger tires or to improve your approach angles? (lol or both) Also did you put spacers in the rear shocks to lift it? I want to go more aggressive next time with the tires. You can't drive fast on this island and there are tons of reasons to need big tires.
 
#35 ·
ive been running 265.70.17 for over a year...maxxis bighorn mud tire... 31.7" on my ml320

my bumpers were ruined when i obtained the car from a friend ... so i removed them and like the look lol.....didnt have to raise the rear ... do the 265.70.17 and remove sway bars for a great ride.. i got a free 1/2" lift in the rear when i removed the factory spare and rear bumper lol.... i have a full size spare in the cabin when i need it
 
#27 ·
Ok, my larger 265 70 17's are almost here.....excited !

...so I'm excited to run these larger, more truck / All Terrain treaded shoes on the ML500 !

What did I order ?

I found this to be an intriguing choice:

Nokian Rotiiva AT ATV Radial Tire - 265/70R17

Here are details:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007W1K1MC/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These AT tires are highly rated, made by the #1 mfr of tires in Finland.

Very good in the wet, snow & mud, as one might expect.

(We get tons of rain here, anyhow. Plenty of mud on our 2 acres).

The price was right, $ 112 ea & the rating on treadwear - 700 - very high.

Even had indicators built into tread that spell out % of tread remaining !

They'll be here Wednesday & we'll see how they look 'on Truck'.

Will post pics & impressions soon after.....

Cheers - David in East Texas :laugh
 

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#29 ·
I have been using Nokians for close to 25 years. At first just the snow tires on my Vws.

For the last 10 years the WR SUV tire which is now the WRG3 SUV.

For truck tires they actually work very well on our farm ytuck, but I have never gone into mud more than 8"-9". I do have the Rotivas on my pickup truck.
Not sure how they will work on the W163.
 
#31 ·
Back to you Noodles...



Noodles:

Glad to hear you like your Nokians.

I hear they're really popular especially in the Northern 'snow & ice' states & Canada. They're manufactured in Finland, so no surprise.

We get tons of rain, occasionally ice, here in the rural forests of East Texas.

My initial impression is on our w163:

They are working great !

But I'll let some miles roll up and make a further assessment.

Meantime, I'm very impressed with the package of features, quality & price on these tires.

$112 each, delivered from Amazon. How can you beat that ?

Happy Easter to you all - David in East Texas

PS: I will work on picture uploads.

I have to do them from computer, not smartphone, now that I recall
 
#30 · (Edited by Moderator)
Ok, the NOKIAN ROTIIVA ALL TERRAINS 265-70/17's are here....

and on the ML500 Truck.

Loving the ride ! Loving the look, too.

Even my wife commented "Better driving & feel in all aspects...."

(That's a notable difference, coming from her.)

This appears to be the tire size & type that MB 'Should' have fitted in the first
place, imho.

It's a 265 / 70 R17 (115T load rating)

They fill the wheel well more fully, yet no danger of body contact.

Plus the chasis now sits nearly 2" higher, so now I won't scrape high curbs on my front Bull Bar lower edge. Nice.

More ground clearance is a good thing. We get torrential rains and live rural where there are all the ground conditions that simulate "off roading" even without overtly trying to do so !

The RPMs are now a bit lower, so both ride & engine are quieter on highway cruise. Too soon to say how MPG is affected.

So those are the initial improvements from just the 'size upgrade' and should mostly hold true regardless of tire brand - tread type.

I'm very impressed by these Nokian Rotiiva All Terrains - they're like a blend of a quiet Highway & Off road tread.

With a bunch of cool features like cooling fins, rock ejectors, 100-80-60-40% molded in treadwear indicators & a high 700 Treadwear rating.

There is no "knobby tread noise" like you hear when guys put 'mud terrain' tires on. Yet this tread is clearly more 'grippy' than the old Goodyears. My braking is much more effective now !

Quite a few of the reviews say these are nearly as fast stopping on ice & snow as fully studded Winter snow tires.

Here's some reviews from other users, fyi:

https://www.nokiantires.com/summer-tires/nokian-rotiiva-at/

another variation:

https://www.nokiantires.com/all-weather-tires/nokian-rotiiva-at-plus/user-opinions/

Anyhow, I'm loving this new, 'Lifted' feeling in our ML.

Appreciate all the feedback y'all provided me on the way to this significant upgrade !

I will post what pics I have now. Later on I may add some more.

Cheers - David in East Texas :wink

PS: Sorry I don't think pics are uploading. Why is this new system so glitchy on pic uploading ? !
 
#32 ·
OK, here goes with the pics for the 265-70R17 upgrade...

Some pics here are the earlier tires, showing the Goodyear Fortura HLs in 245-65R17. (while a very good tire, more highway than All Terrain + only 29.5" diameter when new. New tires are 31.7 diameter)

Here....
 

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