ML63 AMG

[RUEY220]

Originally Posted by Bogie

None taken... We've hit a topic I've always wondered about.

I am imagining an attempt to accelerate hard from a stand still on slippery ice. You'll get nothing but wheel spin. I don't know anything about the marketing side of the auto industry, but speaking as an engineer, the amount of power you can lay into the pavement is limited by the ability to maintain friction with the surface. That's why Porsche started making 4X4 sports cars. It allows for more traction.

Porsche also did the AWD because of the marketability of their cars. Did you know the 930 Turbos had the highest number of collissions by owners due to rear end breaking loose on turbo kicking in at high RPM? They had the highest ratio of fish tail spin outs compared to any other car of its time and people hitting them as a result. I recall a friend saying the previous single turbo 911's RWD used to have turbo lag and suddenly kick in like the gates of hell opening. Imagine taking a turnoff from the freeway or entering a cloverleaf on a wet day and those turbos kick in.

Prior to 993's most performance enthusiasts warned don't drive a 964 or 930 911turbo unless you had driver training. The AWD concept helped sell alot more 993 turbos with a piece of safety in mind being able to grip on wet, loose pavement, and even hang like on rails when tracking.

This however is a disadvantage for other drivers who want to compete in different car categories and to remain competing in certain GT categories that prevent AWD hence the GT3, GT2 category which is still rear wheel drive. Porsche owners also are split into two different categories which Turbos are mostly for fast cruiser daily drivers, while the GT3 most specifically GT3 RS, GT2 are mostly known for majority track use cars.

[RUEY220]

Originally Posted by asianml

A lot of it has to do with marketing. The E55 AMG was rated by MB as 469hp, while the SL55 or S55 were rated at 493hp. Dynos on the E55 revealed they made as much, and sometimes more than what MB said it made (>493 bhp).

i can't agree with you any more. The funny thing is that these cars have a slight margin differential of their true horsepower. I was told they get the a small sample size of the spec'd out engines and get their average hp output to target a specific hp rating they want to sell the car with. On average mechanics have said your car can vary up to 5%+ or - the hp rating the car is advertised with. So theoretically you can have a 480hp E55 or a 475hp SL55.

I do know of some sleezy car manufacturers that build a particular model by default with on board computers, and remove the screen unless you pay $500 for the option. The screen can be bought for $100 as a replacement part, but they don't tell you that.

I guess I'm hot on this topic about all marketing because that's what today's world is all about. Everywhere you go it's all about various forms of marketing and just playing with our minds to sell stuff. Global greed has taken over and very few realize that our lives are influenced by large corporations making us see only what they want so they can make a dime off us. From the clothes we wear, food we eat, shampoo we use to clean our hairs, it's all about marketing. Gone are the days people just try to supply us with our needs.

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by RUEY220

Porsche also did the AWD because of... collisions... due to rear end breaking loose on turbo kicking in.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I call it an engineering problem, though, not a marketing problem. As an engineer, I feel that I have to make my product safe because it's the right thing to do, not because people will not want to buy it.

Originally Posted by RUEY220

I guess I'm hot on this topic about all marketing because that's what today's world is all about. Everywhere you go it's all about various forms of marketing and just playing with our minds to sell stuff. Global greed has taken over and very few realize that our lives are influenced by large corporations making us see only what they want so they can make a dime off us. From the clothes we wear, food we eat, shampoo we use to clean our hairs, it's all about marketing. Gone are the days people just try to supply us with our needs.

I agree with you completely. MBA graduates are offered much more money than engineers who go on to develop products for them to market. I call it the Amway legacy and I want my underpants back!

[Bogie]

Originally Posted by sstomcat

I dont feel it to be sluggish and yes I never forget that I'm after all driving a 2+ ton SUV ....

No, you misunderstood. I may be wrong by attributing it to Porsche's initiation, but SUVs were sluggish before the MBs and BMWs. These were the explorers, pathfinders, landcruisers, blazers, etc... None of these would get you excited unless you were offroading or had modded it so heavily that people stared at you at the stop light. My Explorer had 150 hp and was considered a powerful SUV in '93. In my opinion, the ML55 was the first of the super SUVs. It was the first to make me say, What the hell are they doing!!!??? When they introduced the ML55, I was already aware that Porsche had a 400 hp SUV in the works. It was just a rumor back then, but long before it's 2002 debut. Of course, you could argue that MB and BMW had to be working on their SUVs long before their 1998 debut.

[asianml]

The C63 has too narrow tires for the kind of power it puts down (255 rear). The IS-F has 255s and the M3 has 265s.