Vibrations

[jojorom]

Unfortunatly having it move from 70 mph to 120 mph is ideal but unlikely, though it sure would solve alot of the tire makers problems. It would more likely to relocate in or around the 45 mph to the 65 zones.[:)]I forgot to add some other contributing factors like, belt shifting, belt miss-alignment at building, ply overlapping at building, impacted, bent or flatened wheel(s), suspension wear, improper sizing of tire, tire inflation, alignment, worn CV joints, etc... boy the list could end up long. The problem with "on the vehicle balancers", the process is time consuming, expensive, they become (without a repeat of the process), non-rotatable and the hardest part of all, find someone that has the equipment and is willing to do it. Hence, some tires are just not compatable with some suspensions

[Drew]

ack - 8/15/2005 9:20 AM

4. Could this be the mysterious differential problem that MB alluded to for model years 1999-2002. In that bulletin MB admits that differentials might be slightly out of balance?

There is no mysterious differential vibration issue AFAIK. On 1998 and earlier 1999 MLs, the transfer case could bind slightly when making a tight turn at full lock. This was rectified with the revised transfer case ratio for the later 1999 models onwards.

[tiger2doll]

Drew,

This may be slightly off topic - I have a 2002 ML500 (built Jan 2002) and I do experience a loud metal grinding noise when making full turns at slow speeds - like in a parking lot or gas station etc. This happens once a week. Since mine is a MY02 I am assuming I have the upgraded Xfer Case. The dealer has been unable to "duplicate" the issue on more than 3 occassions. Is it the Front Wheel Bearings, The Driveshaft, Steering Column, Xfer case or something else ? I feel I am beating my head against a wall trying to get this issue resolved - at the same time I tend to feel it may be a potentially dangerous issue if something were to come apart or break while driving. Please help !!

Thanks,
Rahul

[ack]

cmitchprint - 8/15/2005 9:46 PM

Go ahead and do it now!! You'll be happy you done it. Why ride in a vehicle so nice and endure all that vibration? It's worth the money![:)]

Very, very tempting I must say. . .How are the Cross Terrains on HWY speeds (70 mph to 120 mph)in terms of noise and vibrations? When they were balanced and put on your rims, did they use a lot of weights? I am not too concerned about the HR vs VR speed ratings of tires.

Regards,
h3rmes

[ack]

Noodles - 8/15/2005 11:52 PM

This is an interesting thread.
After having gone thru two sets of the OE Dunlop Grand Treks on a 99 430 I decided to try the Nokian WR SUV tire. Mounted and balanced them myself at the shop where I work on my club racing cars. So I knew it was double checked and bolted the wheels on the truck. I was freaking out. The truck felt like it was a paint shaker at anything over 35 mph. I called the distributor in this area and told them that I want the money back 30 day offer because these tires are junk. He sent a rep to the shop with 4 more tires. Well now we had 8 tires to choose from. I took a tie wrap and zipped it onto a laser pointer. I taped the the laser to a 2x4. then used a stack of paper to adjust it to the right height for the laser to pass right across the surface of the tread while the wheel and tire were on the balancing machine. We spun each tire and wheel from the first set of four. Two of the four tires were not round. There were high and low spots. The Nokian rep was astounded. We busted off the two bad ones and had to go thru all 4 of the replacement tires he brought to get 2 more round ones. I kept the good tires and Nokian ate the 4 bad ones. I was so pissed that I rousted the head of Nokian USA in Georgia and told him how pathetic the problem was.
I told him next time I would back in Michelin or Dunlop product because it was not close to acceptable that their QC was so bad that a rigged up laser pointer could find major flaws in the roundness of the tire.
That being said the tires have done very well in the snow and wet, but seem to be wearing more quickly than the Dunlops.

Thanks for the caution! I had no idea that the Nokians had QC problems! I was just about to pull the trigger on them for my BMW 740i Sport for the winter time. Looks like I am on the hunt again. . .

[ack]

jojorom - 8/16/2005 3:33 AM

This post is very interesting to me, first I have had some experience, I've been out of the rubber business for some time, but, as a ex-passenger tire thru ex-earthmover specialist there are some interesting points to note. First, some tires are just not compatible with some vehicle suspensions ( hard to believe,is it not ). The location of the vibration and speed while driving have a lot to do with the solution. EQ: steering wheel is a front problem, seat is a rear concern( in most cases at any speed ). A off the vehicle balancer is both quick and profitable, but they do not take into account the wheel bearings, brake rotor, hub, CV joints and everything else that rotates as a unit, so even a perfect off the vehicle balance may still have a slight vibration. Do the tires have a aggressive tread versus passive. The amount of applied weight( excessive one side compared to the other) can tell you alot. Then there is driver sensitivity. Because of all of the above you can get rid of a vibration at one speed only to have it return at another. There is so much more to look into so far as flat spotting and out of round tires go, that I could be here forever but in short, my guess is QC is out the window these days and its just hit or miss and may the best price win.

You ain't kidding! There are so many interconnected components that are related to vehicle vibration that I think it is really a "black" art with very few master practioners in the field.

[ack]

Drew - 8/16/2005 12:16 PM

There is no mysterious differential vibration issue AFAIK. On 1998 and earlier 1999 MLs, the transfer case could bind slightly when making a tight turn at full lock. This was rectified with the revised transfer case ratio for the later 1999 models onwards.

Drew,

Are you familiar with this?

--------------------------------------------------
14M/99-2 GROUP 49 - M-CLASS, VIBRATION: The following information is provided in case of complaints regarding M-Class vehicle vibration. Cause: 1) Tires/wheels and/or front & rear differential may be slightly out of balance.

Please follow the sequence indicated below during diagnosis / repair.

A. Check run-out of mounted tire(s). If more than 1.0mm, check run-out of bare wheel. If run-out of bare wheel is less than 0.4mm, match mount tire to achieve a run-out of less than 1.5mm. If this is not possible, replace the tire. Please use Damage Code 40101 20.

B. If run-out of mounted tire is less than 1.5mm, calibrate tire balancer. Mount bare wheel and record balance weight required for inner and outer planes. Rotate bare wheel 180 degrees on shaft and respin wheel. If difference is more than 10 grams, have the tire balancer repaired or replaced before proceeding. Be sure to use centering adapter and flange plate as per
S-SI-MBNA-40/26A, 58/82A, August 1998.

C. If imbalance is more than 10 grams, remove all weight and rebalance.

D. Reinstall wheels and test drive. If still not acceptable replace front and rear differentials (parts must be released by a Technical Specialist due to limited parts supply at this time).


NOTE: The complaint may be caused by either the vibration of wheels/tires and/or the differentials. Before any repair attempt and to avoid unnecessary repairs, make sure to diagnose the correct cause for the complaint and perform repairs accordingly.

Damage Code 35001 36 - Rear
Damage Code 33401 36 - Front
--------------------------------------------------

[cmitch]

ack - 8/16/2005 3:01 PM

Very, very tempting I must say. . .How are the Cross Terrains on HWY speeds (70 mph to 120 mph)in terms of noise and vibrations? When they were balanced and put on your rims, did they use a lot of weights? I am not too concerned about the HR vs VR speed ratings of tires.

Regards,
h3rmes

I experience no vibration at all running 75 to 85 mph. I've only driven it over 85 (about 95) once and I don't remember anything happening. When they balanced the tires, they only put the weights on the inside of the tire. If I recall, they weren't out more than a 1/4 oz. I asked them about the self adhesive weights for the outside and they said I didn't need them. While I was suspicious about their reply, I went ahead and let them do it. I've had no problems at all. The Michelin Cross Terrains are GREAT!! I'll never own any other tire!

[redeye]

ack - 8/16/2005 1:01 PM

Very, very tempting I must say. . .How are the Cross Terrains on HWY speeds (70 mph to 120 mph)in terms of noise and vibrations? When they were balanced and put on your rims, did they use a lot of weights? I am not too concerned about the HR vs VR speed ratings of tires.

Regards,
h3rmes

Do it. I replaced my original Dunlop Grand Treks with X-Terrains, even though I still had a good 10000 miles left in the Dunlops and the X-Terrains were pretty much the most expensive tires I could find. Rough ride & vibration = gone. Excessive road noise = gone. The Michelins are smooth and quiet on just about any surface, and pretty decent in snow as well. You will find direct replacements for your OEM spec: 275/55R17 H-rated.

[treeman5]

I love my Yokohama Geolanders...cheap too...$136/tire - mounted, balanced & 5 year road hazard. Quiet, smooth ride...does awesome in snow and rain. Hopefully this weekend I'll get to see how they do off road!