Nice one

Hey I just bought a S320 1997-R and I didnt manage toget it with Sat Nav, How much did the unit cost you to get from the ML?Do you think it will be less hassle buying a Retro fit Sat Nav system from car stereo outlet?

Let me know if it all works!!

P.s Wonder how the GPS system works without an Arial???or does the head unit come with it cos you said that the movement of your car is registered???

Sounds good mate

Yohan

 

Hi Yohan,

I prefer using the a Mercedes Nav unit because it looks more elegant, and...

Hi Yohan,

I prefer using the a Mercedes Nav unit because it looks more elegant, and matches the interior perfectly. I found that the alpine and pioneer nav units don't match at all, and degrade the styling of the interior. Plus the Mercedes Nav unit are better integrated into the car. You can plug in the hands-free phone kit, and your phone book is accessible right on the Nav screen. If you choose the COMAND unit (from CLK) over the MCS unit (from ML), you might be able add the steering wheel controls.

The MCS is easiest to deal with, its plug and play. Just buy the under-dash antenna from Mercedes, or buy the on-the-dash antenna from Alpine (~45$ US on Ebay). And you're all set. I'd recommend getting a Cordless Dremel tool from Home Depot ($38usd) to cut the dash.

You need to get

(a) ML's MCS radio (b) Navigation drive. The Navigation drive mounts into the MCS radio. You can get either the CD drive, or if you have more $, you can get the DVD drive. The CD version uses 11 CDs to cover US and Canada. The DVD version uses a single DVD to cover US/Canada.

MCS radios go for about $500-600. The Nav Drive goes for about $600-700 for CD, or over $1000 for DVD.

Add the antenna ($90 retail for Alpine), and you're looking at around $1200-1300 US dollars. This is way cheaper than buying Nav as a factory option, and I believe is cheaper than buying an aftermarket Alpine or Pioneer unit.

For the discs, they are abundant on ebay, and you can copy them, whatever.

To answer your last question, if you unplug the Antenna, the unit sees your movement using the speed signal, and sees your turns using its internal Gyro. But if you move around too much with no antenna, after awhile. When you plug the antenna back in, it corrects itself.

Cheers

 

Can you post some pictures of the finished result? Maps...etc. Thanks.
...

Can you post some pictures of the finished result? Maps...etc. Thanks.

 

You do know your stuff!!

Hi RainMaker, thanx for the info, I need to source a CLK or ML head unit and navi unit plus the giro unit for the GPS to work. I know I can get a the UK spec DVD. I will be in touch for fitting instructions if I managed to get all the bits.

Cheers mate

Yohan

 

be careful about which CLK unit you get

Hi Yohan,

I have recently acquired a CLK nav unit for experimentation. I believe it has gyro built into the unit. However, you have to careful that you get the older CLK nav unit which doesn't use CAN-bus signals. They physically look the same, but if you get the CAN-bus version, it has no recognition of the ignition-key and headlight-switch position, since it expects these signals from the CAN bus rather than the conventional wires. Therefore it will exhibit the following quirks:

1) will not turn on automaticlly with ignition key
2) will turn off automatically after 30 mins (because it thinks you are running off battery
3) will not dim with headlight switch

If you get the wrong unit, I have heard that some place will modify it to the non-CANBUS version but I have no idea who does that. Also, I've heard that the Megacomm adapter might work to emulate the required CANBUS signals, but I can't understand the Megacomm website, its all in German (www.megacomm.de). They also make the RGB input for the CLK unit so you can plug in TV, VCR, PS2 etc...

As for installation, the CLK unit is *almost* plug and play. It doesn't use the C-plug anymore like that the factory radio uses (and the ML MCS unit uses), but instead uses a C1 and C2 plug which you have to add. I bought these from the dealer, moved the speed signal into the C1 plug, and everything works great.

I'll post pics for everyone on how each unit, the ML Nav, and the CLK nav, looks in the w140.

Cheers

Derek




---
1997 S320
18" AMG Monoblock
Blinker mirrors retrofit
Blue IR glass tint
S600 Avant grille
6000k Philips Ultinon Xenons
Lowered 2cm by trimming springs
Burlwood steering wheel, shift knob
DVD Navigation

1996 M3 Convertible
17" M3-LTW wheels with 10mm H&R wide-trak spacers
Bilstein PSS9 Coilover suspension
Racing Dynamics cat-back exhaust
In-pro Euro glass headlights
E46 Xenon projectors retrofitted
Angel-eyes retrofitted
Power/heated seat retrofitted
Park Distance Control retrofitted from 740i
1997-on Front kidney update
Crystal-Clear corner lights
Rear LED panel taillights modification
Integrated V1 radar detection
Indiglo orange/titanium face gauges with Chrome rings

 

Is rewiring all the buttons on the console to the MCS a pain?
...

Is rewiring all the buttons on the console to the MCS a pain?

 

pics so far - MCS in bay

Hi, it was pretty easy to move the buttons... as you will see in the following pics, I moved the climate control to the lower position (below the radio). The wires did *not* need to be extended. I simply cut some grooves thru the plastic cage to allow the wires to reach the lower DIN directly.

Only the 3 switches above the climate control -- the trunk release, hazard light, and rear-headrest switch needed to be extended, and these are only a couple wires per switch anyways. I moved these switches to the position next to the armrest/storage bin. I am going to upgrade my hazard switch to the "triangle" shaped one from the newer mercedes.

In the pic, you will see that the Alpine GPS antenna is simply jammed up to the front windshield, temporarily.

Cheers

 

Re: pics so far - MCS in bay

Hi, it was pretty easy to move the buttons... as you will see in the following pics, I moved the climate control to the lower position (below the radio). The wires did *not* need to be extended. I simply cut some grooves thru the plastic cage to allow the wires to reach the lower DIN directly.

Only the 3 switches above the climate control -- the trunk release, hazard light, and rear-headrest switch needed to be extended, and these are only a couple wires per switch anyways. I moved these switches to the position next to the armrest/storage bin. I am going to upgrade my hazard switch to the "triangle" shaped one from the newer mercedes.

In the pic, you will see that the Alpine GPS antenna is simply jammed up to the front windshield, temporarily.

Cheers

Looks freakin sweet!
[}]

 

WWWWOOOOOWWWWW, looks great! Can you also integrate a digital phone to it? Er..BTW, any ...

WWWWOOOOOWWWWW, looks great! Can you also integrate a digital phone to it? Er..BTW, any chance to do mine???
[]

 

Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bloody hell Rainmaker, thats looks wicked!!!I will call around and try and get a unit out of an old CLK, Shame your not situated in the UK as I would have paid you to sort my W140 with a Sat Nav unit

Will be in touch

Thanx

Yohan

 

I looked again and noticed that your climate control is different than mine. Mine is stil...

I looked again and noticed that your climate control is different than mine. Mine is still using the dial to control the temp. So, I guess it is harder to move them. OH well, even it would not look so Mercedes, I am going with Alpine D900 and navigation.

 

next step - integrated phone and reverse camera

Hi fellows, too bad i'm too far away from the UK or Indiana state to do any installs (I live in both Los Angeles Califoria and Vancouver British Columbia). But I will document it closely so that the project goes more smoothly for you guys. My next step will be to retrofit navigation into my 1997 Range Rover 4.6 HSE (which has no mods so far).

Yes the MB Nav unit supports the integrated phone. Someone demonstrated the system to me, and its quite neat. When you plug your phone into the cradle inside the armrest, your entire phonebook appears on the nav screen. When an incoming call comes in, the music dims out, and the nav unit asks you if you'd like to take the call. The voice recognition module controls both the nav functions and the telephone functions. This level of integration is what sold me on the Mercedes nav system. The aftermarket units won't integrate the phone.

My next project will be adding the TV tuner, and the Reverse Camera, (since I am terrible at parking).

As per your climate control, dtkw, I think it might still be electronic (ie. not mechanical). If there are wires behind it, then it can be moved. I have a feeling it is electronic, but you can verify easily by taking the wood out. I'll post a pic showing the secret latch on the wood panel, and my custom tool, if you're interested.

Cheers

 

Yes, please do. Also, do you have to use the Mercedes phone to work with the unit?
...

Yes, please do. Also, do you have to use the Mercedes phone to work with the unit?

 

actually, dtkw, comand will fit yours

Actually dtkw, see this pic, he has the same climate control as yours, and he kept it on the top and fit the navigation unit underneath. I prefered to have the nav unit higher up (for visibility purposes) which was why i moved the climate.

Cheers

 

photo of catch

Hey dtkw you sure responded quickly. I thought I was the only one up this late!

To take the wood panel out, pull the radio and any screws out first (see W140Gills post about the screws, i didn't have any on my car). Then pull the trim around the shifter out (I used a credit card as to not scratch the wood, just pry one corner out at a time, little bit at a time)

Below the wood shifter, there is a plastic hook under the wood (see pic). It needs to be pulled forward with a MB tool. I just used bent coat hangar to do it. I'll take some pics when I get my wood back (its at the autobody shop being clear-coated).

Cheers

 

You mean retrofitting a mercedes navigation system on your Range?

that's really sharp...

You mean retrofitting a mercedes navigation system on your Range?

that's really sharp! Was the clk-navigator the most appropiate or you just chose it for any reason?


Thanks a lot.

 

Range Rover

Yes, I am going to install the CLK unit in the Range Rover, now that I have an understanding on how the wiring works.

The Range Rover is not as common as MBs in the US/Canada, so I could not find a used Landrover Navigation unit *anywhere*!!! I've been looking for months.

The reason that I chose the MB unit (CLK or ML) for the Range Rover is that it is a standard Double-DIN size, so it can physically fit into anycar that has a Double-DIN bay. Also, it is a self-contained unit (built in Gyros), which only requires two external signals - speed and reverse signal (plus the antenna).

Cheers

 

hahaha, I stay up late all right, after all, we are two hour ahead of you too. I agree wi...

hahaha, I stay up late all right, after all, we are two hour ahead of you too. I agree with you, the higher the screen is the better. So you don't have to look down to see it. I would put the climate control on the bottom like you too if I was going to do it. But I don't think there is enough skillful people here to work on the W140 wiring with confident. And I am not taking the chances with them. So, I guess I pass the Mercedes look and go with Alpine. The only thing looks different is the headunit unless the screen is up anyway.

 

Climate control swap

I was thinking, couldn't you just scrap all the old style climate pieces and install the LCD one-piece unit in place of it? Anyone know if it will wire right up? I think that would not only look better, it would make it easier to cut the wood since you'd only have to make one big cut instead of 3 small ones.
And with the DVD-Nav unit, will it actually play DVDs? If not, I can always wire up the XBox

 

Yes the new LCD climate control can be retrofitted to the earlier models. It has been...

Yes the new LCD climate control can be retrofitted to the earlier models. It has been done, though I'm not sure how much work is involved.

There is a Mercedes guru in the Netherlands who has done this on a 1993 c-klasse (which uses the exact same climate control as the s-klasse). He writes in the mbworld.org audio/electronics forums alot. He is coming to LA near the end of October to install stuff for people in the US.

The DVD-Navs will only play audio DVDs (for safety reasons). This is also true of the Pioneer DVD Nav system (I used to have one). You need to plug in a DVD-changer and feed the AV signal into the Nav unit.

Cheers

 

Re: Range Rover

Yes, I am going to install the CLK unit in the Range Rover, now that I have an understanding on how the wiring works.

The Range Rover is not as common as MBs in the US/Canada, so I could not find a used Landrover Navigation unit *anywhere*!!! I've been looking for months.

The reason that I chose the MB unit (CLK or ML) for the Range Rover is that it is a standard Double-DIN size, so it can physically fit into anycar that has a Double-DIN bay. Also, it is a self-contained unit (built in Gyros), which only requires two external signals - speed and reverse signal (plus the antenna).

Cheers

So.. it can be done. I was thinking of doing it in a Passat. Where do you get the navi's? From MBenzNL? If not, do you get a good price?
I assume you use dvd model, who manufactures it? It's just to know if it could work in Europe and who would provide maps....

Thanks a lot

 

The cd changer don't work!

Hey, I tried this a few years ago.. I didn't know how to make the navagation work! The one thing I noticed is that my stock cd changer didn't work! I have a 1994 S600 coupe...
Can you please tell me everything that is need to buy and the more pictures the better!!!

 

COMAND vs MCS

I'm not familiar with Passat, but if the later years had digital climate control, then it likely can be fitted to the earlier model. It might involve moving alot of components. This was the case with the E36 BMW. Someone on the DTMPOWER.NET forum did the project a couple years ago, he found a wrecked E36 with digital climate, and transplanted everything over to his older E36.

As for Nav in the Passat, yes you can put the MB Nav unit in there provided you have the double-DIN space for it. You should locate the Speed-signal (its a standardized PWM Pulse Width Modulation signal), and a 12v reverse signal (easy to find). The MB Nav will still work without these signals, but it won't be as accurate, since it doesn't read the Satellite signls all the time. The unit often figures out where you are by adding your distance driven to the last known satellite location.

MBenzNL is a good source for Nav units, although I got mine from Ebay. His prices are about the same as Ebay... The whole project should cost between $1200-1500 usd. This is significantly cheaper than buying nav as a factory option in the MB.

I have two units, one is DVD, one is CD. The manufacturer depends on which unit you have. The US ML unit (called the MCS) is made in Japan by Alpine. The CLK/E-class/Euro-ML unit (called COMMAND) is made by Becker. Since you are in Europe, only the Becker COMMAND will be available to you. There is no such thing as MCS in Europe. And you can't use MCS in Europe because it uses different CDs.

The Comand I believe is CD-only. The earlier MCSs were CD-based, the newer ones are all DVD-based. The MCS can be upgraded by swapping the drive inside, but this won't matter to you since MCS is not useable in Europe.

Cheers

So.. it can be done. I was thinking of doing it in a Passat. Where do you get the navi's? From MBenzNL? If not, do you get a good price?
I assume you use dvd model, who manufactures it? It's just to know if it could work in Europe and who would provide maps....

Thanks a lot

 

Re: The cd changer don't work!

The navigation function and AM/FM function should work right away. However, the CD-changer will definitely need to be swapped. The AM/FM/Cassette decks in all sedan models 94-98 use the same changer. But the Nav radios use a different CD-changer:

MCS (US ML)
-----------
2000 model will have part numbers (A163 820 04 86 or A163 820 21 86). These units need a ML specific CD-changer. A Panasonic changer will also work here with the Blitzsafe adapater.

2001-newer MCS units has been changed to fiber optic, so you need to get the Mercedes Fiber-optic changer ($599usd). There are generic-branded MB fiberoptic changers on ebay for quite cheap ~$250.

COMAND
------
As far as I know, these all use fiber-optic changer, same one as MCS (ie $599 for MB brand, $250 for generic brand). The COMAND unit uses the C1 and C2 plugs instead of the C plug that is already in your car. You have to add the C1 and C2 plug, and give those plugs the speed signal (from pin 1 of A plug), and also the CD-changer Power, and Wakeup signal. Audio signals go thru the fiber.

As for the Navigation function, did it turn on at least, and play some music? As for navigation, make sure the antenna is plugged in and check in the menu under "GPS Information" to see how many satellites its picking up. It will take awhile the first time to catch a satellite, but eventually it should fine like 5-6 satellites. Also it took a couple hours for the unit to figure things out. At first, the arrow on the map was showing that I was driving on the ocean!. And after that got resolved, it took some more time for the arrow to actually point in the direction I was moving. But now it has dead accurate precision. When a highway is about to split, it tells me which lane to stay in and which way it bends, and it shows a bar graph on the side that counts down till you get to the fork -- 1 mile, 0.8 mile, 300 ft, 50 ft, ... 0 ft. And it goes to 0 ft exactly where the highway forks. Anyways, I'm rambling...

Cheers

Hey, I tried this a few years ago.. I didn't know how to make the navagation work! The one thing I noticed is that my stock cd changer didn't work! I have a 1994 S600 coupe...
Can you please tell me everything that is need to buy and the more pictures the better!!!

 

so all I need is...

so all I need to get navagation in my w140 is ...

1) MSC unit from ML
2) cd or dvd rom that fits in the msc unit
3) Map CD that goes in the rom
4) ??
5) ??

what am I missing in this list??