Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

Missing infamous cooling 'T'

3K views 36 replies 10 participants last post by  quakercity 
#1 ·
Going through my purchased parts I brought back to install, I found my new cooling 'T'.

When I pulled the intake manifold to replace the PVC hose assy and clean up the intake manifold, I went searching for the 'T' to replace it. But I could not locate it. I know where it's supposed to be, but it did not appear to be installed.

My question: do all S600's have these? Could mine be missing it because it's such an early model (Nov 91 manuf. date)?

Given that I'm driving the car several times a week, and am about to take it on some several road trips, I wanted to make sure I'm not going to have problems with the cooling system.

Cheers
 
#2 · (Edited)
Going through my purchased parts I brought back to install, I found my new cooling 'T'.

When I pulled the intake manifold to replace the PVC hose assy and clean up the intake manifold, I went searching for the 'T' to replace it. But I could not locate it. I know where it's supposed to be, but it did not appear to be installed.

My question: do all S600's have these? Could mine be missing it because it's such an early model (Nov 91 manuf. date)?

Given that I'm driving the car several times a week, and am about to take it on some several road trips, I wanted to make sure I'm not going to have problems with the cooling system.

Cheers

AFAIK, all w140, regardless of the production date/engine size/ market designation, have the heater tee.
Why don't you post a picture of what you found by the firewall?

Steve

PS What in the World is "PVC hose assy"...?
 
#3 ·
I'm thinking about pulling the intake manifold off again. I've got a bit of a surge at idle. After Joe's comments on the manifold spacers, I'm temped to check mine, as they were removed, cleaned, replaced with new gastkets, torqued then the manifold put on. I may have a leak there.

PVC: positive ventilation for crankcase. The big tube that runs down the valley and connects to the throttle bodies.

I'll search for the T again when the manifold is off. Just looked now. Can't see a thing in there. Even with the bonnet all the way open.

Cheers
 
#9 · (Edited)
I'll search for the T again when the manifold is off. Just looked now. Can't see a thing in there. Even with the bonnet all the way open.
From the pictures/links I provided in my earlier replies, it is clear that ones needs a borescope to take a peak there.

The access port (again, I'd pull the intakes) is useful to inspect the short hose from the back of the heads, but the tee is still obstructed



PVC: positive ventilation for crankcase. The big tube that runs down the valley and connects to the throttle bodies.

Cheers
PVC (polyvinyl chloride)
PCV (positive crankcase ventilation)

Neither PVC or PCV applies to the M120. Strictly speaking, what you are describing is merely a crankcase breather.
Blow-by gases are re-routed back to the intakes.

No pressure, no valve.

Steve

PS The black tube in the middle of the vee serves unknown purpose (to me). Some called it a muffler, some oil separator.
 
#4 ·
I'm thinking about pulling the intake manifold off again. I've got a bit of a surge at idle. After Joe's comments on the manifold spacers, I'm temped to check mine, as they were removed, cleaned, replaced with new gastkets, torqued then the manifold put on. I may have a leak there.

PVC: positive ventilation for crankcase. The big tube that runs down the valley and connects to the throttle bodies.

I'll search for the T again when the manifold is off. Just looked now. Can't see a thing in there. Even with the bonnet all the way open.

Cheers
 
#8 · (Edited)
#11 · (Edited)
Well,

That certainly looks fun. Explains why I didn't see it when I just removed the intake manifold.

Seriously? The best way is to remove the engine?
It doesn't, unfortunately.

Removing the engine is not necessary (although you'll be doing it, might as well wait).

Removing the intakes is A MUST.


Once the intakes are out (notice on my picture that the valve cover is out of the way), access to all clamps and hoses is VASTLY improved.

Steve
 
#13 · (Edited)
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Replacing the tee is over $800 in the US. To cope with it, you probably can get the vaseline from Walgreens.

If this is not the vaseline you asked for, then, you probably meant what MB calls a "slide paste" .
MB 0009890160.
Notice that it is literally sold in "buckets" only.

Honestly, I don't think you need anything besides your motivated helpers (and the parts). Your car is from the first production year, and like mine, should have the metal tee.

If I were you, I'd leave the tee alone and replace the hoses only.

Steve
 
#16 · (Edited)
Each of the two tees connect two hoses in a horizontal line, but there is a third hose which connects at a 90 degree angle to them. Where do those hoses go and what are they for?
Thanks,
James
Dear James:

Please take a moment and read through all the posts here -- not too many - only about a dozen.

A link to another thread I provided has this picture, that should answer all your questions:



Steve

PS As explained, the V12 engine takes a lot of space and access to the $30 part is non-existent. Some tear-down is required and the price tag is over 3/4 labor.
 
#17 · (Edited)
RHD 140 do not have the dreaded "T", but I think scottpeterds car is LHD, so it will (should?) have it.

scottpeterd, re. your surge, don't the early V12 M120.980/981 engines have a different intermediate plate, seals and gaskets vs later model M120.982/983 engines? Not exactly sure what the changeover date is, might even be before M120.982.983 came into production.
 
#18 · (Edited)
RHD 140 do not have the dreaded "T", but I think scottpeterds car is LHD, so it will (should?) have it.

Steve_B, re. your surge, don't the early V12 M120.980/981 engines have a different intermediate plate, seals and gaskets vs later model M120.982/983 engines? Not exactly sure what the changeover date is, might even be before M120.982.983 came into production.
Hi Joe:
Read carefully please. It is NOT me with the surge at idle.
I won't know what is the intermediate plate of the later engines as I have not seen one. I've heard that the 600SL used plastic, mine is aluminum.

Some more pictures of my engine can be found here:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/2543865-timing-chain-re-installation-6-0l.html
Steve
 
#19 ·
Thanks. Edited.

To anyone referring to my M120 V12 maintenance/fix thread keep in mine it's a MY96 car with M120.982 engine. Other year models are different. Check your car and part numbers vs MY96 before digging in expecting the same parts and problems to fix.
 
#22 ·
Joe,

There may possibly be differences in the intermediate plates between series of these engines, but I know mine are aluminum, as are Steve's.

But Pelican doesn't show different parts. Took a screenshot of that.

I'm the one experiencing the surge. Your note about how to torque the intermediate plate came a bit late for my needs. As I've replaced injectors, o-rings, dist cap/rotor, plugs/wires and vacuum hoses, I think that might be the only thing left that would account for the surge.

Steve: it would be interesting if know my car also had a metal 'T'. I'm wanting to take it on a several day trip around the top of Lake Victoria to the tea plantations on the Kenyan Rift Highlands and then into Kenya. But now I'm worried about the T if it's a plastic one.

I may just pull the manifold and see if I can get a peek at it.
 

Attachments

#23 ·
In the EPC diagrams for my S600 it has "As of engine" next to the part numbers, that means earlier engines at some point had different part numbers. The Transmission EPC diagrams are littered with these revisions. Anyway, always best to double check this stuff. Might have been a very early revision.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Joe:
This is not related to the topic covered in this thread, but my recent experience with suspension part numbers shows that while the EPC is a great resource, if you are buying aftermarket parts, you are largely on your own.

Back to the tee. Current part number used across the board is 1408301696:

HOSE. HEATING WATER CONNECTION; Hoses made by Mercedes Benz. #1408301696

HOSE.
1408301696 must have replaced 1408321494; 1408322294; 1408300015

The catalog simply states:
This product fits 68 vehicle variants.
Mercedes: 9 models, 68 variants between 1992 and 1999.

Digging deeper, one will also see a bunch of other numbers. They all come up with NLA and take you to 1408301696
Which part number is for the metal tee, if there is a different part number at all, is not clear.

This probably means that the bean-counters at MB took over and replaced the metal with plastic, keeping the price.

Steve
 
#25 ·
No, we did it before we knew that we had a harness problem and the manifold was in place. All you need is skinny Italian style fingers. Seems to me that if you laid a plank or board over the engine, laid on it and worked OVER the tee it might come out easier. In my case, the tee was indestructible but the hoses attached to it were ready to let loose.
Anziani
 
#26 ·
infamous tee experience

When I first got my S500 and started reading this list I replaced my tee right away. Unfortunately I did not see recommendations to avoid Uroparts and went with one of those. 18 months later the thing exploded. I noticed that it got hot and pulled into a parking lot to see what was up. The tee was in pieces. I still had the OEM tee in the trunk so I got it out and replaced it. When trying to remove the remaining pieces of the Uroparts tee from the hoses the tee parts just crumbled to bits in my hand like it was made of soda crackers. I bought the Rein tee for the new 140.
 
#27 ·
We discovered on the '97 that the "tee" was indestructible! We locked it in a vise and wore out a sledge hammer trying to break it. Apparently MB changed suppliers or formula's by the '97 year. HOWEVER, the hoses were toast and were ready to let loose.
Anziani
 
#28 ·
So where does one find the small hoses attached to the 'T', and the block? Are they dealer only? I've looked at my usual parts suppliers and they don't list them.

And does anyone remember or have noted the size of the cooling hoses along the firewall? I can't get new hoses here, so I need to carry them in from the states.

Cheers
 
#29 ·
Scottpeterd, yes the dealer would be the source for the small hoses. I'd go to the parts dept and have the parts guy bring up the screen display. They were not very expensive but you's be in a world of "hurt" if they let loose 100 miles out in the savanna while dodging elephants!
One of these days maybe you will tell us how you ended up there but with apparently frequent trips back to civilization.
Anziani
 
#30 · (Edited)
Coupes and sedans are different in this Department, as I've learned the hard way, but one thing is common -- most of the coolant lines you see on the pictures I provided in posts #4 and #11 are metal tubes.

Two of the hoses related to the 'tee' come with the kit. The two short hoses from the back of the heads are 15 or 16 mm (5/8") in diameter and no more than 20 cm long (combined) -- will fit in your hand luggage w/o any issues.

The rest of the hoses that go to the heater core are bulky, but they do require essentially the dash to be removed.

To recap this topic -- if you have a 'tee' on your 600SEL, it will be the metal type and likely won't need anything.

Enjoy the ride.

Steve
 
#31 ·
Hi Scottpeterd,
It is a pleasure to find you on this MB Forum Steve informed me that you are in the region and particularly in Uganda and that you travel regularly to Kenya.

I am from Kenya and I live in Nairobi. Currently I a have 300 SEL from former President Kibaki and now looking to buy S600 V12 either 1996 or 1998 Year. Needed your quick advise. I have two options: 1998 S600 V12 with 58,000 miles Co. maintained for 12,000 GBPs from UK ...Old man selling it and got it from the company he worked for many years. OR 1996 S600 V12 with 130,000 miles used by about 4 owners and with service history for the same 12,000 GBPs.

Also advise on whether it is the kind of car you can enjoy in our region, availability of parts and mechanics?

Also whether either of the two is worth it for 12K Pounds? If not what other options to owning a good/ decent v12?

I notice yours is SEL that means pre 1995 does it difference with the 96-98?

I am told that transmissions for 4 speed and 5 speed could be different in terms of reliability, any info on that?

In your honest opinion, would you recommend this type of MB or will you rather I stick with my W126 300SEL which i feel is underpowered in as much as it is beautiful car.

Please reach me out on +254 720982 310.

I will need to make a deal on the w140 S600 sooner.

Best regards,
 
#32 ·
Dear Steve,
Thanks. see message below to scottpeterd. I appreciate your links. I hope he will respond and we can take it up from there. Erastus

Hi Scottpeterd,
It is a pleasure to find you on this MB Forum Steve informed me that you are in the region and particularly in Uganda and that you travel regularly to Kenya.

I am from Kenya and I live in Nairobi. Currently I a have 300 SEL from former President Kibaki and now looking to buy S600 V12 either 1996 or 1998 Year. Needed your quick advise. I have two options: 1998 S600 V12 with 58,000 miles Co. maintained for 12,000 GBPs from UK ...Old man selling it and got it from the company he worked for many years. OR 1996 S600 V12 with 130,000 miles used by about 4 owners and with service history for the same 12,000 GBPs.

Also advise on whether it is the kind of car you can enjoy in our region, availability of parts and mechanics?

Also whether either of the two is worth it for 12K Pounds? If not what other options to owning a good/ decent v12?

I notice yours is SEL that means pre 1995 does it difference with the 96-98?

I am told that transmissions for 4 speed and 5 speed could be different in terms of reliability, any info on that?

In your honest opinion, would you recommend this type of MB or will you rather I stick with my W126 300SEL which i feel is underpowered in as much as it is beautiful car.

Please reach me out on +254 720982 310.

I will need to make a deal on the w140 S600 sooner.

Best regards,
 
#37 ·
I did end up replacing mine. The part was bought for $25 a few years ago and the lbor was virtually free since the intake manifold was off for valve cover gasket replacement. Mechanic said the old one was starting to deteriorate.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top