Put the car up on jacks today. Passenger wheel wobbling. Sure enough, the idler arm bushes are shot.
So, searched the forum. Read the posts. Went under the car several times...
On my V12, there is no heat shield above the starter to remove. Rather, the forward exhaust pipe is in the way.
So, loosen the downpipe from the manifold and the exhaust pipe. No way is it going to move out without removing the forward exhaust manifold.
So, PB blaster and several hours of wrenching. All the nuts are off the manifold except the forward most lower one. To get to that, the air pump has to come off.
To get the air pump off, the radiator has to be pulled.
Am I the only one experiencing this? It seems insane this much work has to be done when other's seemed to have removed one piece and at most, have to saw the bolt in half.
Am I the only one experiencing this? It seems insane this much work has to be done when other's seemed to have removed one piece and at most, have to saw the bolt in half.
The idea of a v12 sounds sweet. Powerful, smooth, quick, quiet...you name it. But when working or around the engine it sure is nice to have the engine bay room of my straight 6.
Yeah I lifted/tilted the M120 with the engine mount bolts loosened with exhaust manifold in place. I made just enough room to manoeuvre the idler arm bolt out from the top. This job would probably be easier with new/fresh engine mounts, my engine mounts are no doubt squashed, giving less room.
Well, I spent a fair amount of time examining my setup. I also undid my new motor mounts and jacked the engine up about 2". There still was no way to get the bolt out.
Hard to believe there is that much difference in our cars. Mine is a Japanese market model, so maybe that accounts for the difference. As before, there is no heat shield for the starter.
Even after jacking up the engine, the lower/forward downpipe interfered with removing the bolt. Hence the need to remove the downpipe and forward exhaust manifold. The rear exhaust manifold and the 'upper' downpipe look like they can remain in place though.
This is odd. I guess my work will end up looking like Steve's (except I'll have my valve covers on) by the time I get to the point I can access the bolt.
By heating and bending an offset box-end wrench, I was able to access the lower front manifold nut and get the manifold and downpipe out of the car without removing the air pump. I then pulled the starter. I had total access to the idler bolt.
Replacement went fairly quickly, with never-seize on all the threads.
The total time to replace the idler arm bolt was about 5 hours. 4 hours 58 minutes to gain access; 2 minutes to replace the bushings.
A surprising find during the disassembly was that the vacuum lines for the driver's side ignition module and the passenger's side EGR were reversed during my vacuum line replacment a few months back. The EZL module vacuum was being switched by the EGR solenoid mounted on the intake manifold. And the EGR valve was permenantly activated by being hooked directly to the intake manifold. This probably accounts for my inability to get a reading of less than 70% duty cycle Lambda on the drivers size bank.
While not the worst job I've done on this beast, it was the one that threw all the planning out the window. But at least my passenger wheel no longer wobbles.
But I'm convinced more than ever that I need to pull the engine to clean and re-seal it. Doing that while it's mounted in the chassis is going to be too much trouble. Esp since I have to pull and repair the upper oil pan.
Thanks to all for their help. No pics for this one, as they are identical to Steve's.
I suppose this isn't completely true. Your set-up, as well as Joe's should be the mirror image of mine, as your cars are meant to be driven on the wrong side of the road.
I would love to see where exactly all the components are. You mention starter and air-pump being in the way -- are they on the left or right side of the block (left and right defined as being in front of the engine)? Where is the steering gear?
Wow, shame I didn't get a chance to reply earlier. The idler bolt doesn't come perfectly up, still have to deflect it to the side for it to come out with the engine jacked up to one side.
Actually, it's exactly the same as yours. As a Japanese model, my wheel is on the left (American) side of the car. That's what makes it so strange driving here.
As I land in the states and start driving on the wrong side of the road, running over pedestrians and cutting people off, it takes me about a week to drive correctly.
Then I come back here to Uganda, where we drive on the correct side of the road (left) with my African vehicles, I take about a week to get used to it. But then I drive the Mercedes, which is made for driving on the Japanese/American roads, and am back to running over pedestrians.
Anyway, our engine/suspension layouts are identical. Looking from the front, the airpump, starter and idler arm are on the left side of the engine. Identical to your pics. I was hoping to get away without pulling the starter, but it fouled the idler arm bolt.
I figured I would not do pics, as they would have been identical to yours. Except your chassis and engine are much cleaner. Mine still looks a bit like it came out of a war zone (which it did). But I'm gradually getting it cleaned up!
Anyway, our engine/suspension layouts are identical. Looking from the front, the airpump, starter and idler arm are on the left side of the engine. Identical to your pics. I was hoping to get away without pulling the starter, but it fouled the idler arm bolt.
I figured I would not do pics, as they would have been identical to yours. Except your chassis and engine are much cleaner. Mine still looks a bit like it came out of a war zone (which it did). But I'm gradually getting it cleaned up!
Sorry for the confusion. The steering wheel is on the left side of the car (as viewed from sitting in the car). The same as an American car.
So the steering box (as viewed from the front of the car) is on the right side, idler on the left.
It is confusing, having a Japanese model car (validated by the VIN, the Japanese owners manual and the Japanese market-only DVD-based navigation system) that has the steering wheel on the same side as an American car.
Sorry for the confusion. The steering wheel is on the left side of the car (as viewed from sitting in the car). The same as an American car.
So the steering box (as viewed from the front of the car) is on the right side, idler on the left.
It is confusing, having a Japanese model car (validated by the VIN, the Japanese owners manual and the Japanese market-only DVD-based navigation system) that has the steering wheel on the same side as an American car.
Your car VIN may correspond to a Japanese model, but the layout of the components doesn't agree with that. It is (and must have been) a LHD from the get go.
Let's see what Joe says about it, as his car is most certainly RHD. Idler arm, steering gear and starter should be in opposite directions to what you and I have, but the steering/tandem pump, air pump (if he has one), alternator and A/C compressor should be in the same places as we know them.
Brake assembly, blower, wiper arms, fuse boxes, should also be in the opposite corners.
Given what will be involved to do a proper RHD to LHD conversion, I doubt that a PO has simply put a new dash and pedal box in yours.
Please post some pics, as your's is a RHD. Would be interesting to see the differences between your and mine/Steve's.
I'm sure it will account for the differences in the amount of work required.
What I was a bit surprised at was the amount of play in the wheel that resulted in what seemed like a tiny bit of wear in the bushing/bolt once it was out on the bench. Archimedes at work...
This morning, perusing discussions on the Porsche 928 forums, as I've been looking to upgrade my H4s to H5 (but having issues with the LHD vs RHD lens, someone posted this:
"Note that Porsches in Japan are usually LHD cars with RHD headlamps. Importing these cars to a LHD country (often Canada) => lighting conversions often creating availability of RHD lamps in LDH countries (Canada/USA) - be careful of these! an expensive mistake."
Somewhat surprising. So I went searching the Benz forum, and look what I found:
"I spent a lot of time over in Japan in the 90s, even did a bit of research on BMW and its market strategies as it was getting established there as a major credible brand. Both LHD and RHD models were available from both BMW and MB, and the "Left Handle" accounted for almost half their sales from the mid 80s. Luxury, prestige, a chance to claim a socially acceptable morsel of individuality -- these were the explanations offered by the insiders.
Whatever the explanation, there are lots of Left Handle Benzes for sale on the Japanese sites from the era when MB was still run by engineers not accountants and marketeers. They tend to be almost rust-free and drip-free. Why? Because Japan wants its population to buy new vehicles. "
and in post #7...
"In addition, all 500E/E500's were produced as LHD. "
While anything is possible, in the glovebox was an original owners manual, in Japanese.
If someone went to the trouble of putting a Japanese VIN plate on an ROW car, they certainly went the distance by getting an original owner's manual. As well as the stickers on the door post pillars.
Most of our cars in East Africa are sourced second-hand from Japan. Because they pretty much remove cars from the roads after 50K, and freight service is so cheap to the mid-east, we have a steady supply chain. In east africa, it's not legal to import 'used' cars for sale.
So in UAE and Dubai, they import second-hand cars of all types from Japan, clean them, and put a new battery in them. They are then considered 'reconditioned' and are eligible for import into East Africa. Our import duties on new cars are prohibitive, so over 90% of our cars are 'reconditioned'.
The biggest problem that shows up here is that the radiators are clogged after the voyage and sitting in un-airconditioned warehouses. So a car come in here, and the first time it's taken on a road trip of any distance, the head gasket blows. It's a standing joke here.
While anything is possible, in the glovebox was an original owners manual, in Japanese.
If someone went to the trouble of putting a Japanese VIN plate on an ROW car, they certainly went the distance by getting an original owner's manual. As well as the stickers on the door post pillars.
OK, as you say. The stickers also confirm that it is a 1991 production?
Steve
PS Check on the web the operations out of port of Wilmington. Ships with totaled (by the insurance companies in the US) cars depart daily for Latin America. I am told the reconditioning you mention is quite common there too -- many of those cars, I am sure, are just used as VIN-donors (and for parts) as I cannot imagine the economics of getting a badly t-boned car back on the road, even if the labor is cheap...
The VIN does confirm a 01 designation (Japanese version).
Your car is build in 09/1991 and in the US it will be called MY '92 600SEL
Points worthy of mention/more discussion:
1. No option codes for ABS
2. No option codes for sunroof. Correct me if I am wrong, but your car does have a sunroof, doesn't it?
3. No option codes for SLS/ADS
4. No option codes for anti-theft system
5. Most surprisingly, no option code (350) for navigation, which you appear to have.
List of option codes from Joe, I would assume those are legit.
I've seen other lists with option codes, but they were not in English.
- Sunroof
- ABS
- SLS
- No antitheft
- Did have navigation system. Replaced it with a dash sunglass case/cover
The VIN on the door sticker does match the VIN plate above the radiator. But, I just noticed today the vin plate is affixed with phillps head screws! Is that normal?
Agreed. This is why I listed those that I have and DO show up upon VIN decoding.
But, all of this is secondary to the question -- where are the steering components located on a RHD car? If there are differences, as suspected, how might this affect the idler arm change?
RHD has idler on LHS. These cars are mirrored, yet to see any pics to suggest otherwise.
Re-capping: I had to raise the engine and remove the idler arm bolt on an angle. Come to think of it, the Febi supplied bolt is longer than the MB original. I think I re-used the MB bolt, will grind to length a new both next time I do this job.
I have new engine mounts here, I'll do this job again pretty soon as my idler arm on the S600 needs a shim up, the Febi kit worked fine in the S500 but in the S600 there is some slack.
Idler and steering gear mirrored, this is to be expected.
But then the starter, which Peter could not remove because the smog pump was in the way. On a LHD car, both are on bank 1 (cylinders 1 through 6). Your posts suggest the starter is also mirrored.
And let's not forget that bank 2 (cylinders 7 through 12) extends a few inches less further back.
This implies that with the intakes ON, there might be some more room in the back to put a wrench, although, IIRC, there were lots of cooling hoses in this area...
Re-capping my posts. I did the job with the engine partially disassembled and the ONLY difficulty I had was loosening the bolt. For future reference, and to help those that will need to do this job with the engine in it native state, I think someone should post pictures.
Swapped out the Febi for MB Genuine idler arm bush tonight on the (RHD) S600. Pic showing bolt head beside exhaust during removal. It rubs on the inside edge of rear 3x cylinder exhaust section. Starter is on top right side corner of pic.
Maybe the exhaust is not 100% mirrored on RHD vs LHD W140.
Eventually replaced the idler on the S600. Hardest part was having to loosen the bolt\nut twice because i forgot to install the heat shield. Did the idler bolt\nut with 2x 21mm double hex spanners no problem.
Removed the steering dampener
Removed the 21mm nut from the idler bolt
Pushed the bolt upward so the idler was partially free so i could get some bottom movement to tilt it away from the exhaust
The bolt was very close to clearing the exhaust after positioning so i opted to give the head a light tap and it came out easy. It did slightly indent the exhaust shielding in the middle but was worth it as i didn't have to jack the engine up
Pried the bottom bushing off with a screwdriver
Loosened the clamp and removed the idler tube from the car
Removed the top bushing and pressed in the new one by hand
Placed the idler tube back in the clamp on the car and pushed the bottom bushing in by hand
Tightened clamp. moved assembly into position, installed new bolt and nut with heat shield, tightened and replaced steering dampener
I forgot to mention the car has no play in the wheels now, steering response is noticeably quicker and my vibration appears to have lessened. Good improvement for time & money spent. I'm hoping a road force balance and alignment which it needs will fix the rest and i can rest easy.
^ yeah the steering really tightens up, shrinks the feel of the car, reduces tire wear, reduced vibration.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Mercedes-Benz Forum
7.6M posts
693.6K members
Since 1999
BenzWorld.org forum is one of the largest Mercedes-Benz owner websites offering the most comprehensive collection of Mercedes-Benz information anywhere in the world. The site includes MB Forums, News, Galleries, Publications, Classifieds, Events and much more!