Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

Advice Needed: Purchasing a W140

2K views 14 replies 4 participants last post by  SuperQuest 
#1 ·
Four years ago, I sought advice from these boards on purchasing a W140, to which several members provided cogent advice. This was parallel to reading everything I could about these cars, and at the last moment flailed primarily because I was ambitious enough to consider a W140 as my only car. Crazy. So reason had me purchase a reliable Mitsubishi truck.

My cojones have now expanded in size, and consequently reignited my long love affair with w140 (I first fell in love back in ~1992, seeing a V12 coupe). I looked at three examples of this beautiful car this past weekend (successfully managing to restrain myself from making any impulsive decision to drive the car home), and they have various things going for them and not going for them, and so need your kind opinions on them. Aside from being checked by a mechanic, which I will, but I'd like to get the forums view on how they'd prioritize the selection, based on some of the points I list below, as well as other considerations.

I'd like to give a bit of context though. In the Philippines, the prices of these cars are much higher than many other countries. There are not too many mechanics seasoned with this specific MB, and PPI equates to having "your friendly mechanic" taking a look at it. It will also be unusual (like a lottery jackpot) to have service records. So, there is much risk to take.



Car #1: S320 | 1998 | 102,000km | ~USD11,500.00
- The car is in its 3rd owner, who is a general car guy but has no idea of the specificities of this beast.
- Soft close isnt working, and the side mirrors arent either
- Car leaks coolant, about half a litre a week, if the seller is to be believer
- Owner isnt sure if the evaporator has been replaced
- Aircon blows cold, but one can only increase the temps till it cycles back to the lower temp. i.e. the "down" control does not work
- the fire retardant material (?) in the hood lid is torn in several places - if it is indicative of care, but I sometimes judge a book by its cover
- I saw the car upon exiting a restaurant with the Mrs, and ambushed the owner (I had seen the car posted for sale), and as it was late at night, I could not really assess
- Car sits on 19/20in Brabus rims
- The ride was not too great, but it might be the low profile tires and/or the suspension needs work
- The owner is a salesperson, so this makes me more focused on what I need to check and challenge
https://www.olx.ph/item/mercedes-benz-s320-ID7rggT.html?p=23&h=c8adb9ec8e#c8adb9ec8e



Car #2: S320 | 1996 | 60,000 km | ~USD11,000.00
- Owned by a benz enthusiast, owns a R129 and a W210
- Done his research of the known issues, and has fixed the mechanical issues
- Had his mechanic re-surface (?) the head and replace the gasket
- Transmission has been flushed, as well as some other bits and parts
- Removed the heater T altogether, apparently its only useful if you need a heater, which in will never be required in the Philippines
- Replaced the coil packs
- Previous owner to him cut the springs to lower it, but the current owner replaced them with H&R lowering springs
- Riding on 20in (?) Lorinsers
- Interior (gray) is tired, and he has been slowly replacing them
- Car has been repainted from white to black by the previous owner - apparently because he liked it
- Engine bay could do with better cleaning - the machining of the head was evident, the fire retardant material torn all over the place
- 96 US-Spec model (imported from California), its got 5 speed, the new climate control facia, but no side airbags.
- Evap has apparently been replaced
- ride was smooth, though did not get the opportunity to gun it
- I attempted to check the wiring harness but could not recall how best to check it (I now re-learned that the coffin box is one place, another is under the engine cover, near the spark plugs)
https://www.olx.ph/item/1996-merced...ase-ID7vDSb.html?p=12&h=5791e72ba6#5791e72ba6



Car #2: S320 | 1995 | 40,000 km | ~USD12,000.00
- 2 owner car, second owner has not abused the car - this is very evident in the condition of the car.
- Tan interior is marvelously kept.
- The fire retardant material is pristine
- Truth is that they have about 9 cars and so rarely gets to use this car, due to size and the fact that it isnt anonymous
- owner has had the car for 8 years, and only used for special occasions, which is now down to starting the car every few days, as the owner is too old to drive, and
- Everything stock, except the rear tail lights have been updated to the post 96 clear corners
- All vacuum systems are working, but didnt feel anything moving when I fiddled with the lumbar dial
- the side mirrors were not adjusting but I could hear the motor moving
- the key "body" is broken, i.e. only the metal part remains, but the car starts
- Driver door lock apparently does not work, and the owner is afraid of locking the car - not sure why. I know driver door problems are a known issue
- The signal lights do not work, according to the owner this began with the wipers not working. When I tried the signal the wiper went active, but not the indicator. And then I couldnt get it to repeat
- Aircon blows cold. Owner is not sure if the evap has been changed. Owner's driver says a specialist did something with HVAC, by working on something under the centre arm rest.
- Car drives smooth
- I attempted to check the wiring harness but could not recall how best to check it (I now re-learned that the coffin box is one place, another is under the engine cover, near the spark plugs). I checked
-
https://www.olx.ph/item/1995-mercedes-benz-s320-ID7Ez3C.html?p=10&h=5791e72ba6#5791e72ba6


Now, when I was researching and prepping for a purchase years ago I made a list of the known issues and what to check, but when I checked the cars I didnt have the list, nor was I systematic about it. Truth be told, it has been over the last 3 weeks that I restarted my search, and hadnt planned to check them this weekend, till I saw the second apple of my eyes after having lunch with the the first, Mrs SuperQuest. I am going to take car #1 this weekend to an indy benz shop to do a more systematic assessment, though I am not confident in the expertise on W140 of the local shops in general - these cars are not very popular in the PI, and instead these shops work mostly on 123s, 124s, 126s, 210s, etc. This is the risk one must take. I have heard there are a few specialists here and there but they are not advertising themselves, and referrals do not turn up these unicorn mechanics.

Next weekend, I will take the car #3 to the indy shop, as the owner is unavailable this weekend. My heart is really towards this unit due to the apparent condition of the car. I understand that this means seals, gaskets, etc, may have gone brittle over time. I felt it had the smoothest drive of the 3, but this could be perception, and the fact that I had the longest drive in it. I did not however get to 80kmh, as Metro Manila traffic is quite special.
Another thing I noticed amongst the 3 cars was that the brake pedals required more substantial force to depress, as did the accelerator pedal. I am unsure if this is by design, but my only comparison is with Japanese cars (in recent memory).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

in addition to whatever the mechanic checks, I will have them check this (not all applicable to the model).
Checklist
1) A/C Evaporator
2) Wiring Harness
a) Upper
b) Lower
c) Body Harness
3) Vacuum Pumps
a) Rear Seat
b) Boot
4) Motor Mounts
5) Window Regulators x4
6) Mass Airflow Filter (MAF)
7) Suspension
a) Bushes (esp lower control arms)
b) Front springs
c) Self Leveling Suspension / Adaptive Damping Suspension
8) Timing Chain & Tensioner (esp 420)
9) Upper timing guides
10) ESP / ASR
11) Blowser
12) Front springs
14) Head Gasket (Esp the inline 6's)
15) Valve cover gasket
16) Self Leveling Suspension
17) Thermostat
18) Brakes
19) Catalytic Converters - x2
20) Transmission
a) Reverse
b) Flush, seals, etc
21) Serpentine Belt
22) Serpentine Belt Tensioner
23) Radiator
24) TT Fitting that split between the engine and heater core
25) Distributor Caps
26) Rotor
27) Water pump
28) Cooling System overhauled?
29) Flex Disk
 
See less See more
#5 ·
Thanks TV (if you mind the contraction). I thought I was just a superficial guy, and secretly hoped I'd find support for that bias. Is the broken key fob something to worry about? It is also a 4-speed car, but suppose it isnt, or shouldnt be, a critical consideration.

I still intend to assess Car #1 this weekend, in the hopes of finding everything mechanically intact. And to minmize any remorse if I go with #3.
 
#7 ·
SuperQuest,

Nice detailed thread on your search of the perfect car...

Television name is Malcolm..

I too would go with #3 butt.....

Here is the deal, so you are buying a left-hand drive cars...

I pretty good with these cars, and I rebuild transmissions...

The leaking of coolant is no good on any car, but the left hand drive W140 has a heater tee that is critical part as one let's it rupture, and the engine can be destroyed in under a minute.

On car 2, why change the heater tee with 60km on the clock, yet something fishy here. I would leave the car stock. The tee really needs to be changed around 110km to 130km. You want that coolant to circulate the heater cores, so when the car gets hot you can cool-off the car by turning on the heater....

I would not worry about the door locks/lumbar as for these +20 year old cars will have broken door lock, or the lumbar bag will rot from age, but a leaky lumbar will accelerate the wear of the door lock pump under the right rear passenger seat. In most cases fix the pump with a new $20 motor.

I have a 96, and I do not like the 722.5 transmission as it finicky wears out soon on a W140 because of the heavy car...

Car1 would be great, but the water leak is too mysterious for such low miles, but it has really remote chance of having an evaporator problem.. Has a much improved 722.6 transmission(one of the best transmissions, and easy to DIY for the first time), and the key-fobs are radio-frequency-long range. Yes, the climate control panel is the revised big LCD one....

If you are spending that kind of money, I would find some other candidates. Do not get sold on the "Giant Rims and Tires" as on the S320 it will strain the transmission. Just find a stock car.

Since you do not need heater in the Philippines, then you should install external oil cooler for the transmission, and install S500/S600 full core radiator....

Car3 may still be on distributor caps(not sure)...They tend to get wet in humid areas.. Yes a four-speed if you do lots of highway driving it is a gas-guzzler because no 5th gear..

Martin
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the kind words, Martin.

The local market for 140 is not all that great. It is possible to trawl through second hand dealers but that isnt very appetizing. For one, doing so in the metro, with average speeds less than 20 km/h, will require a level of patience which I dont think I am prepared for. Unless these three targets do not pass. For another, I'd almost certainly have to bring the mechanic to the dealer, if I come across a target.

I do not really care for the rims, etc.. I think 17s are appropriate.

For car #1: I am trying to schedule the indy benz shop this Saturday to take a closer look at the car. The owner is okay to soend a few hours checking it out. I just don't want to deal eith the myriad of cosmetic issues, especially as car #3 is free from all that.

For car #2, the owner felt it was preventative to just remove the heater tee. This is the first time I am hearing this hack... the usual I see is either the mileage replacement or replacing with the metal one.

I have attached a screenie of the vin details of car #3, which took delivery to the Philippines in July 1995. I'm not too fussy with the fuel consumption as most of the cars use will be in the city, and achieving 100kph will only be possible on a few roads... I am resigned to 6km/l. My diesel truck, with a 2.5 engine, and 5 speed barely does 8km/l, and that's if I feel unusually sedate.
For the distributors, if cleaning them 1x a month will manage them, its something I can live with... unless it is a half day job!
I am really leaning towards this car, if only because of the light usage, and the fact that the car is kept garaged. I saw two dried spots of oil on the ground, where the right side of the engine would have been when parked.

Do you see any potential issues with this wiper + indicator signal issue? I recall the "bulb" indicator on the dash being lit up, and I think only after driving the car for a bit.

I am filing the recommendation re the cooler and radiator, as one of the first things to do when I take delivery. I am sure I will come back to the board for guidance once I take delivery.
 

Attachments

#10 ·
The wipers and flashers are all on the N10 relay box, well known for dry solder joints, so should not be too bad. Also the connections can fail but not too bad to fix.

Re the wheels, 18" are the largest that I would have, the ride will be spoilt to go larger
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rupununipete
#12 ·
Hello Malcom, Martin,

I just had a PPI on the 1995 W140, and the shop's view is that the car is fine mechanically, and dont seem to think the electrical issue is a big issue, aside from the labourious work in tracing the issue itself. Their other caution was that given the car was not driven often, issues may start popping up later.
The wiring harness looks intact, going into the injectors, and when wires themselves were pliable. The symptoms of the electrical issue/s are:
- wipers not working
- radio not working
- dome lights was not working but later did, but also turned on the vanity mirror lights!
- the engine bay looked like rats found it homely, as evidenced by their excrement!

I have attached copies of their report, but worried about a couple of codes which my initial research indicates potential wiring harness issue. Full codes are:
- 076 Fuel Pump Relay K27
- 097 CAN: Transm. from HFM N3/4 faulty
- 099 CAN: No reception from EFP/TPM
- 116 CAN: No reception from IFZ [I understand this to be an issue with the transponder]

However, these codes might have been there since the 90's, so a bit in a bind here. I negotiated the price down to USD8200, but wondering whether I am to smile to myself for a such a good deal (relative to w140 prices here), or whether I have a bullet heading in my direction. I and the owner are to have the deed of sale signed this Tuesday, and I expect to collect the car on Wednesday this week.



Appreciate your guidance.



 
#14 ·
The real codes of the car will show up hour to two hours later(of mixed driving) to see if any real codes show up after the evaporative system has had a chance to go from closed-loop(simulated mode) to open-loop mode(sensor feedback mode/real mode...)

On a 93-95 cars, the wiper problem is usually the wiper relay block, but the "brains" to wiper control could be bad(it was in my case with a 95 I was working on).

Now, you are in the humid part of the world, so you could have a oxidation problem with fuses. This 95 car which i worked on. I had to replace 80% of the engine area fuses as I was getting all these weird electrical problems, so that may be your problems too...

The engine is critical on bad wiring problems as they can short out a computer module(s), kill-out the ignition module, and some ignition modules are very expensive, so a word of caution rat-chewed engine wires....

Here in the USA a car with these problems is typically few thousand dollars at best, so why do not go shopping in the USA?

This is your money, but the rat thing does not sit well with me....

It is your call...

Martin
 
#15 ·
Thanks Martin.

The PPI is quite perfunctory in my opinion, and this is not a normal process of used car buying, unfortunately. It usually is "bring your friendly mechanic".

I am a bit ambivalent about the electrical issues, as it is not clear whether it is a small issue or a more substantial one. Diagnosing it properly is pretty much out of the question, as it would take more time and more money, and will be pushing it with the seller.

Ditto the rat problem, but it is par for the course for cars rarely driven. Nonetheless, I am pulling the trigger on this and preparing myself for the journey. It will be more unfathomably expensive to purchase and ship from the States, or Europe.

Thanks a lot for your advice, and will share more once I close and start getting the car sorted.

PS: I just saw a new ad for a 98 S500, that goes for over 2x the price! Cant afford that and fix it up.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top