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Equus or W140?

9K views 68 replies 21 participants last post by  ronw123w124 
#1 ·
Gang,

Yes I know these are totally different price points. Here's the deal. I am looking for an elegant yet understated daily driver to spare the miles off my Jag XKR that I've modded the crap out of. The modding means is mega loud and just a beast. So I want the exact opposite out of my sedan. I want to marvel at the quiet, soft ride, etc when in the sedan - and then just love the raw feel of the XKR or whatever I replace it with.

That said I love the big presence of an Equus and the fat that it isn't the cliche' big 3 - MB, BMW, Lexus. 10 year warranty to boot. Used for about $35k. At the other end of the spectrum is the W140 which I have always loved and know it was way over-engineered in its day. Here are my questions:

1) What do you love most about your W140? The least?

2) What else have you owned that you can contrast it to?

3) I had a 95 SL500 for like 3 months. The steering of that recirculating ball joint was boring for even a GT. Although it won't feel so bad in my refined daily car, is the W140 the same rack?

4) Has it broken the bank in maintenance?

5) Which engine is best? I know I would want the SWB. The 320 seems like it would feel very very slow - but I suppose it would get great mileage. The 420 and 500 seem interchangeable.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!
 
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#2 ·
Love most? The sensation of agile massiveness. This is best experienced first-hand. Perhaps the best rendering in words is "The W140 is a giant that has been taught to dance on the tips of its toes." But words do not do it justice. Some people might not like the sensation. I love it.

In the 1980s I owned a W126, a 560SEL. I went on to other things (a couple of Cadillacs, some Z-cars, a Chrysler) but I never forgot the 560SEL. Hence the 140.

Maintenance? I drove it for a year with nothing but an oil change.

I've never been in an Equus. To me the whole idea sounds like a gold Timex.
 
#3 ·
Not sure I even know where to start...

Yeah, the Koeans have come a long way in the last year and a half, but they still can't hold a candle to a Mercedes. In any S-Class, be it 108, 126, 140, 220, or even 221, the car (as a package) feels right, and the Equus just isn't. Think of it like Lexus. Yes, in theory they sound like good cars, but when you drive an LS back to back with an S-Class, the winner is clear. One is a dolled up Camry. The other? Well, it's a Mercedes-Benz.

Question is, can you live with a wanna-be?
 
#4 ·
Had a 2012 Hyundai Genesis come in on trade with 22,000 miles. Original MSRP of $47,800 and I could have bought it for less than 1/2. Thought too good of a deal to pass up on. Drove it home for 2 days. No comparison and would never look at a Hyundai or Kia again. It is closer to the hunk of junk Hyundai Excell from the 90s that a friend had in college than anything upscale. Besides credit challenged individuals, why would anyone finance/lease a Hyundai / Kia if they are able to drive anything else.
 
#5 ·
1) What do you love most about your W140? The least?

I have a 92 600SEL, had a 300SEL. Most liked is the way the sheer heft of the thing irons out the bumps. I use it mainly as an interstate cruiser where I spend about 18 hours behind the wheel on a weekend. The roads I travel break up easily and always have terrible bumpy sections.

The least liked? Maybe just that it's getting old. Not a design defect, of course, except that it doesn't have some of the gadgets I would like. Not a big deal.

2) What else have you owned that you can contrast it to?

Biggest car I've owned was a '94 Ford wagon. Despite being 1800kg and a long wheelbase it rode nothing like the W140. Most luxurious would have been my 02 ES300. Lighter, more nimble, very refined, I'd consider another if I needed a city commuter car.

3) I had a 95 SL500 for like 3 months. The steering of that recirculating ball joint was boring for even a GT. Although it won't feel so bad in my refined daily car, is the W140 the same rack?

My steering and suspension is worn. I have all the parts now to overhaul and will get onto it soon. It is still recirculating ball so will probably be like the SL.

4) Has it broken the bank in maintenance?

Not yet. I DIY most things. I find the V12 far less troublesome that some would have you expect. Most problems with the W140 are common to all models. It's a complex car. If just driving it and not messing with it is a priority then get a later model (97+) with low mileage that has been well cared for and yields a positive PPI.

5) Which engine is best? I know I would want the SWB. The 320 seems like it would feel very very slow - but I suppose it would get great mileage. The 420 and 500 seem interchangeable.

The 320 is fine, the final drive is lower. My 300SEL, even with the extra weight of the long wheelbase was OK. For DIY maintenance it's the easiest to get at by far. If I wanted to go a step up in smoothness I go for the 4.2 V8. The V12 is sublime. SWB V12's exist, but are very rare.

As for the Equus, we don't get them here in Oz but the pics look impressive. We may be getting the Genesis sedan next year. Our local big RWD drive sedan manufacturers are shutting up shop in 2016/17 (Ford and GM) so that has created an opportunity. I would like to have a drive of one of these. If I were going to give a 'most improved player' award the Koreans would be right up there in the running. They have managed to establish there own style in the smaller cars, still a little derivative in the big ones. But that market is more conservative so I guess they are playing it safe.
 
#6 ·
The best thing about the W140 is that it feels like you're driving a bank vault. It has a lot of presence and people do take notice of it, even though it's not flashy or cutting-edge anymore. It's just quality through and through. There really isn't anything like it, even today (although the new W222 seems like it might be worth a drive). What I like least is the occasionally frustrating maintenance regimen that the car demands if you want it to be perfect.

I haven't owned anything else in its category other than a 2004 E-Class (which I highly recommend as well; great mid-size luxury). All my other cars have been sports cars/exotics.

The steering rack for the R129 is very similar to the W140, and it is a point which some have complained about. Bottom line is that these cars were made to do 100+mph for six hours at a time on the autobahn, not lap a LeMans circuit. That's not to say it isn't an agile car; it really is, especially for its size, and Mercedes did an outstanding job of making the car maneuverable in tight spaces. But this isn't a sports car.

As I mentioned before, maintenance can be a point of frustration. The W140 is no bargain, despite the low entry cost. After you add it all up, what you spend on repairs will be comparable to a lease payment on almost any other luxury car. If you buy one, you buy it because you want it, not because its cheap. Some people of course get luckier than others, but at the end of the day, repairs are going to be necessary, and there isn't anything on these cars that doesn't cost money.

I've owned an SWB S320 before my current LWB S420, and I never felt like the 320 was slow. It just doesn't have the same feeling of smooth freight-train power that the 420 and 500 have. And I wouldn't say that the 420 and 500 are interchangeable either; you do feel the difference if you drive one after the other. It's not huge, but its there. The thing about the 500, however, is that it came standard with a self-leveling suspension, which improves the ride, but adds a whole extra dimension in maintenance expense.

I take it you're not in the USA? The only SWB available in the USA was the 320; if you want a 420, 500 or 600 the only option is LWB.
 
#7 ·
The best advice is to test drive the w140.... All of them 320,420,500,&600....

You will know if this is the car for you...:)..
 
#8 ·
AH yes, I remember the Equus along with the Chairman, prior to them being in the States during my stint in Korea. I always wondered why didn't those companies import, especially Hyundai, those types of cars instead of the rental fodder they been importing to the states up to that point. Eventually turned out, the Chairman was already based on the Mercedes sedan so basically there was no purpose of that car in the States. The Equus, performance wise wasn't ready for the competition yet as they wasn't sure if people would be willing to spend a little premium price for Hyundai or the likes car. So then they tested waters with the XG, another old Korean stand-by, and gave it some more luxury appointments. It did ok. Then up the game a little more, the Genesis. It did ok. Then it was ready for the Equus.

But still the W140 have that feeling I haven't been able to find in any other car new or old, besides the past S-Class, the older Vickers Era Rolls-Royce/Bentleys,, which is that bank vault solid feel. Quiet silence, not trying to be a wanna be sports sedan with big wheels and feeling of the road surface through the body and steering wheel with stiff suspension. Then decent quality materials with decent styling and decent interior. Straight forward, with some features, but nothing too fancy, but yet, fancy that some cars don't even have today. AKA, right amount of options without feeling of a simply throwing in a few more nanny CPUs and an ipod and jacking up the price by 10,000 like newer cars. The W140 feels like an updated version of the W126 as far as feel and engineering (although look wise the w220 look closer to it).

Now I haven't driven an Equus in a hot minute but it's a solid offering from Hyundai. Kind of feel like a lower end Lexus, decently silent engine, some road noise getting through from the tires (like most new cars these days) and the ride is ok. The new US version is ok, but they held back a lot of the cool luxury appointments that Korean versions been getting for years. The US version feel more like a near luxury car instead of a full luxury car in the lines of Lexus, MBZ, BMW, Jaguar and the likes.
 
#12 · (Edited)
100% spot on BNZ.. ,you have taken the words out of my mouth ,cant stand these little dodgem cars in front of me when I come down ,lol.
Excuse my ignorance here but what the hell of a car is an ( i can't even spell it) ,Equus ,what brand of car is it ,what does it look like ? ,or is it one of those roman water arches ,looking at the name, lol . :thumbsup:

Aaha ,found it ,it's a horse ,Right!!!! >> http://www.equus.net.au/
 
#15 ·
It's fairly predicable that the w140 section of a benz forum will recommend you buy the w140, so no shocks for you there.

We have equus as an office car, and it's actually pretty good. Individual rear seats with power lumbar, 4 zone climate and more toys than any w140. And it's 420bhp, so unfortunately it's more likely to be overtaking a W140 than moving out of the way.

Would I swap my S600 for one, almost certinaly not, but it is a decent car and very comfortable to be driven around in.

W140s can be bought very cheaply, so if you go that route make sure to give it a very close inspection and factor in the cost of repairing anything that needs to be fixed. At the age these cars are now, I'd buy on condition rather than mileage or even service history.

Good luck with whatever car you choose.
 
#20 ·
Hmm, now I have to consider if I want the LWB. I looked up the more modern cars and the latest is the same size. But 140 seems bigger to me I guess because it has a taller more square greenhouse.
 
#26 · (Edited)
you can see/feel the difference in the back seat leg room...

Don't mind the love fest in the posts above, they are actually really good friends... like really really really good friends... perhaps boyfriends. hahahaha. ;) I kid of-course and don't mean to intervene between quarreling lovers but common guys, I've know you guys on the forum long enough to expect much more from each of you. But like I said, not my place... I don't call my car a V140, but evidently I have been mistaken... no more w140, v140 it is from now on. This forum is our hobby, lets actually enjoy it.
 
#29 · (Edited)
The best way for an inexperience buyer to find out if the car is a Long wheel Base or Short WB, would be the VIN Chassis number of course , for a more experienced 140 owner look at the picture below & take notice of the rear square window on the SWB & the more longer rectangular one by 4 inch (100mm) on the LWB ,that's where you look if the car in question is locked .
Another way is at the rear door trim ,look at the ashtray position & then below at the position of the speaker ,if the speaker is directly underneat the ashtray ,it's a SWB ,if there are no speakers, look at the amount of space that is there as non BOSE' fitted 140's don't have a speaker there ,a LWB speaker & ashtray combination is about 3 inches forward diagonal .
Mercedes did this so smart that even on the SWB it is hard to spot this difference,you need to know the dimension as the ashtray is moved forward towards the seat .
You cant go by rear legroom as the seats could have been fully moved forward ,the yellow star in the pic below indicates the ashtray position on the swb ,just more forwards towards the seat .
A Professional w140 owner would know the difference between the 2 (SWB & LWB) by just driving them very fast around curves at specific speeds ,the one that looses it's rear end is the LWB ,to understand this you have to have driven both ,I have , lol. :thumbsup:
 

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#30 ·
I remember looking at the W140 brand new, back in 1992...:).

SWB vs LWB...:confused:.

The sale man ask if you want the SWB or LWB....:rolleyes:.

I said "long"...:thumbsup:

Sale man said " it will cost you $1,000 per inch.... Total $4,000 for 4 inch..;)..

I was lol.....:big laugh:.... That a good one..:thumbsup:..!!! I always remember that moment..:D...

Bring back good old memories...:thumbsup:.. Thank Chris...:)
 
#36 ·
#35 ·
Lolll... thanks guys. Glad You Guys Got A Laugh Out Of it. I wasn't trying to be harsh, just really the way I feel. Some on the forum have voiced concerns about how we (the owners) devalue our cars... When in actuality the worst offense to any 140 series car is to compare it to a f*ing hundai... I'm sure they've made forward leaps and bounds with their cars but for goodness sake, they sell cars based solely on marketing gimmicks ig 100k mileage guarantee and other crap like that... can the first beat cars in their segments like Honda before they challenge the might of Mercedes during the pinnacle of their glory days... I mean common, get serious!

I made that comment because you'd be surprised how many people switch lanes when they are riding at 70mph on the left lane (fast lane) and here I come doing 90mph...sometimes 100 or 110. They literally jump out of my way. Lol.

You right Mercs600, it's a matter of "when" rather then "if" until that day that I plow into the ass-end of some idiot. (Probably driving a equestrian or what ever the pos is called)
 
#41 ·
Judging by all the sarcasm against Hyundai I see several of you are more more car elitist rather than pure enthusiasts LOL. Real enthusiasts can appreciate other - even albeit inferior marques for what they are and accomplish. Last time I checked an Equus was about 1/2 the price of a similarly equipped S550. OF COURSE IT IS LESS CAR. Doesn't take a genius to recognize this. In fact, if Equus weren't build to a cheaper level it would make MB look clueless as to build a quality product cost-effectively - or like taking the rest of the market as fools. Even at half the price it is close to doing so as someone pointed out.

Now I have predominantly owned German cars and only 1 Lexus and a few Infiniti after something like 95 cars in my life. Gone from extremes like Viper GTS to S2000. Or a Z06 to a 911. All different levels of quality and designed with emphasis on different things. That is the fun of the hobby. Some of you gave objective feedback - others just can't help yourself but to stroke your own while bashing the Koreans who apparently like Japs (read Lexus) promptly began eating Germans lunch. The Equus represents the anti-establishment. Those that have either had every name plate and want to try something else - and/or - want to BE or LOOK fiscally responsible go Equus. After all, the rich also stay rich via fiscal prudence; not via perpetual overindulgence. Oh and because of this - yes the Equus would look great next to a private jet. Because only a CEO is secure enough to buy a $65k Hyundai, $80k Phaeton (back in its day) and the like. Most others need people to recognize their logo! Speaking of logos - the Phaeton is beautifully simple, organic and large presence on wheels as well.

When I saw the Equus for first time on road it had the Equus winged logo. I couldn't take my eyes off it. Had no clue what it was but definitely looked S class, 7 series level. This is actually one of things I like. When folks see a newer S or 7 they rarely oggle its detail because they see them everywhere and quality is expected. Instead they actually oggle the owner - wondering how much $ they have or what they do. The Equus forces you to notice the quality and design of the car because people just don't know what the heck it is.

That said, I do love the W140 and a'hem V140. And I plan to drive s a few today. May also look at Phaetons now. I figure W140, Phaeton, A8 and 500E if I want some sportiness are my older choices! Thanks to a couple of you for your actual feedback to the questions I posed. You other uber passionate W140 fans - I love the passion for the car and I may become your brethren! But how about sharing your subjective feedback of what else you have owned so we have context, what you like most, least, and maintenance instead of just pouncing on how stupid the question is. They are legitimate questions no?
 
#46 · (Edited)
The Eqqus is easy to poke fun at... Considering the commercials that Hyundai puts out to advertise it. At $70,000 loaded there is no way it will touch the cars Hyundai tries to make it out to be. Its more like a large car that is similar in price when compared to a A6,5 or E. It is a value car that also is in competition with cars like Caddillac, Lexus, Infiniti or Acura. If one is after value. Lots of goodies for a cheaper price then this is the car for you. If you value quality, ingenuity, creativity, innovation, attention to detail, pedigree or class then a Eqqus is not the car for you. I see them around Florida a lot. They do nothing for me. I drove one and was not impressed with it except for ride quality. A smooth riding car:thumbsup:
And of course the value.

If you want a W140 and are willing to pay/wait for a good example then find a 1999 S500 Grand Edition:thumbsup: Hard as hell to find but well worth it.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Phaeton, A8 and 500E (all great cars!!!) I actually like the Phantom over the a8 but nonetheless all good... unlike that pos hyundia. Lolll

Bertt great equus!

do as Brett suggested, buy an equus. Bet you haven't had one of those. And brother don't get upset about what I've posted. I just don't like Korean cars... don't mean to offend.
 
#45 ·
All in fun guys. Btw, it is a huge compliment to the MB and the w140 in particular to be cross shopped with the best Korea has to offer a whopping 20 years later!
 
#47 · (Edited)
Yeah I liked the Phaeton. Sad the sells didn't do too well in the states due to the VW badge but it was a great car. So what did VW do? Take the parts, turn it into a coupe and later a sedan, plop a Bentley front end and emblem with a little extra chrome pieces and raised the price up by a few $10,000s from the Phaeton W12 and made a killing. Talk about when life hands you lemon, you make lemonade.

I like the Audi A8 but rides too rough and too much on the firm side for my taste.
 
#49 ·
I was going to toss out the idea of the Phaeton. I've been a fan since sitting in one at the San Diego auto show a few years ago. Most beautiful interior among new cars at the time, excepting the Maserati Quattroporte, IMO. If you can get past the gigantic VW emblem on front, it may be a fine car. I have no idea whether the interiors have worn well or whether the mechanicals have held up. Downside is you are forced to deal with all-wheel drive and the extra mechanical complexity. Oh, but that interior just may be worth it if money is not a concern. The 4-place seating package was really sharp. At the same show, I started to be impressed with what Kia and Hyundai were doing and have been only more impressed since then. I'd certainly give the Hyundai Equus a whirl in your situation. At 95 cars, you change cars like I change underwear, so it doesn't look you're making a permanent decision. So, many cars... So little time.

Brett
 
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