Sucks to hear that, hard to diagnose from my experience. Low transmission fluid would lead to gears slipping or harder shifts between gears. Delayed gear shifts too. You sure the raspy sound isn't coming from the water pump ? If you have a friendly mechanic you go to , get them to check the transmission fluid and ask them for their opinion on the sound. I have a friendly one that does all the diagnostics for me for free and even fills up fluids for free if needed because I've been working with him for years.

 

Thanks Perkunas!
I've been under the car and traced the sound. I heard it in the tranny just over the valve body. And, the sound stopped when new fluid was added. I even inspected this while the car was in gear (brake applied). In gear, with the drive shaft stopped, I see the torque converter spinning and the engine running smooth and quiet. Further, the car reaches normal temperature with no fluctuation. I saw the old ATF fluid leaking out of the hole that give access to the torque converter drain screw. No intermixing of fluids was noticed. From this leak (approx 5 drops/sec), it looks like the tranny has to be dropped to repair whatever it is. As for mechanics, I start here. When I speak with them, I find that I am well informed if nor more informed than they! I'm pretty mechanically inclined, and work on my vehicles as a hobbie. So, although I'm disgusted that I have these problem so soon with this thing, I'll be dropping the tranny today without reservation. Or, I'm at least getting her prepped (placed on stands, draining fluid, and disassembling connections) Yes, I've ordered and am expecting a new valve pressure spring, filter and gasket today or tomorrow. It's supposed to get up close to the 50's by the end of the week. Yippee! These problems have made me give my attention back to my 83 SEC which only needed the brakes bled after replacing lines. I haven't driven that car in over a year. I starts right up and runs like a horse! Just have to figure out a fuel blockage that stalls it at low RPM (surely something simple! As it always is with that one).

 

So, I research the forum on dropping the tranny, and AFT leak. I come across a possible culprit regarding the leaking...OVERFILL. Thinking the tranny was empty (maybe misreading makeshift dipstick...a clothing hanger, which may have been too narrow to hold/see fluid), I had added 6 quarts. After start-up today, black fluid was still leaking from casing surrounding the torque converter. After about 15 minutes, it STOPPED! Put make shift dipstick back in, and I have ATF all over it. "Great," I say to myself. "Just too much ATF. Won't have to drop tranny"...hopefully. But why is the fluid that was dripping, so black? "Is this oil and not ATF", I think? "Naw...from where?" Further, my oil appears fresh, as it is still clear and golden. "OK, drain it all," I figure. So, why do I now again hear the raspy sound again while in P and N? When it's in gear, if the brake is on and the wheels aren't spinning I don't hear the sound ("No gears moving" I figure. However, if the brake is released and wheels freed, I hear the sound. So, I put it in neutral... and notice the wheels are spinning. I figure whatever gear engages from the tranny to the torque converter, is slightly engaged and not positioned correctly. I'm hopping this is a fluid pressure problem that is curable by the $7 Valve Pressure Spring that should be on the way! I'll try that next. Until it's arrival, I have to carefully tackle freeing this super tight drain plug, and pan screws! I'll be sure to dissect the filter and report my findings.

 

Wow,

No tranny fluid?? My 1000 dollar S500 the owner(s) never changed the fluid, and the fluid I removed was like honey. The reason the owner sold the car was it would not hold the gear, duh...

What is it with these people that do not change the fluid?

I knew it was a fluid issue, and I did a fluid exchange on my S500, and it used four gallons. Mine shifts smooth, but I hear the raspy sound on first and second gear.

Mine too had super tight pan bolts, and a drain plug. My filter had some copper slivers in the pan and in the filter. I had to use vice grips on two of the pan bolts.

Best of luck, and let us know if it is the pressure spring works. Mine is driving fine at the moment. I'll focus my attention to all the little things it needs. I'll rebuild the transmission myself later this year.

I assume you have a 722.6? Get your self the appropriate dipstick for the 722.6. The 722.6 is a rugged tranny, and it will tolerate being overfilled, but some of the first ones have the vent hole in the bell housing.

Martin

 

Hey guys!

I'll definitely get the dipstick! The previous owner of mine apparently lacked mechanical skills, too. A rear door ashtray wouldn't stay closed. I simply looked at how it was made and reconnected the little arm onto a gear. I had a few little simple thing like this. And, the driver's door lock had a loss of pressure. Also had a small dent from door check. All repaired now. But, I think these little things were costing his ex-wife too much to fix! The new wife wanted the car gone. My gain (I suppose)! The tranny initially seemed fine, and there was no leaking (nothing to leak)!

Anyway, I successfully removed 2 of the pan screws without stripping them. I cut the other suckers off! Yes, there were metal shavings in the pan! Interestingly, however, no metal in the filter! Along with the metal shavings, are small cylindrical pieces (I suspect rollers belonging to some bearing. In light of this, and reflecting back on the initial symptom (a thunk, as if something jammed, accompanied by a feeling like there was a large slip in the gear), I suspect some sort of shaft bearing was probably fried due to lack of ATF. Guess I don't need the valve pressure spring. And, I sure am hesitant to fix what isn't broke! What puzzles me is how new ATF (Valvoline Max Life) is now black. I put it (6 quarts) in yesterday and ran it for about 20 minutes. I ran it maybe 15 minutes today. Both times in gear, but with the brake applied. (After draining the torque converter and emptying the pan, I think there may have been 1 quart of old AFT in it. That 1 quart must have been ashes! Time for more research! Thanks again! btw, I have the 722.622

 

About your ATF,

You still do not have enough ATF in the tranny, but you are lost without the dipstick. it sounds like you are cooking it.

For some reason Valvoline Max Life is only available in quarts at all the "Brick and Mortar" stores. If you mail order it from wally world you get a buy at a gallon price.

Get the Valvoline MaxLife Dexron / Mercon Automatic Transmission Fluid at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.

Wally world is out of the stuff, but these guys have it.

MaxLife DEX/MERC ATF (1 Gallon) by Valvoline MaxLife (part#773775) / Mercon/Dexron AT Fluid

This is how I change the fluid on the W140:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/1670718-what-my-transmission-fluid.html#post5406277

Martin

 

So this fluid safely be put in a early W140 transmission? I want to change mine soon in my '93 400SEL and have been clueless as to what to use. I was going to go to the dealer and get the MB fluid, but if I can use something else from a store, that would be great!

I always put plain Dexron in my old W126 and it has never caused any problems and we are pushing 200K in that car now, but I don't want to take any chances with my W140.

Thanks!

For some reason Valvoline Max Life is only available in quarts at all the "Brick and Mortar" stores. If you mail order it from wally world you get a buy at a gallon price.

Get the Valvoline MaxLife Dexron / Mercon Automatic Transmission Fluid at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.

Wally world is out of the stuff, but these guys have it.

MaxLife DEX/MERC ATF (1 Gallon) by Valvoline MaxLife (part#773775) / Mercon/Dexron AT Fluid

Martin

 

Thanks Mava!

I used THAT fluid!

Also, a google search just directed me to your post with the tranny diagram! I'm hoping the problem is just the Pump Body! Uh, oh...looks like quite a bit of work.

 

Tony,

First, you are welcome.

If you are going to all that effort, and go into the pump. I first suggest you inspect, or just replace motor and tranny mounts.On my 1000 dollar benz, The engine is sitting on the bottom. The round fan shroud barely clears the bottom. Inspect the clearance of the bottom to the top of the fan. The resonance sounds may come from the mounts.

Sign-up for Mercedes EPC, so you get the proper parts diagram for your car. It is free, but it will ask for a credit card. You need a Windows computer. It needs to be updated with Java and Internet explorer.

EPC-net Online

Best of luck,

Martin

 

Mava,

I've literally had my ear on the various areas of this car. Looks like it's been garage kept. Not a speck of rust on it. And, even the rubber parts are in good condition. It is solid, tight and smooth.

The sound came from the tranny! In addition, the roller bearings in the tranny pan clearly evidence mechanical damage.

I spent the whole day yesterday unbolting the tranny and components. The one thing that gave me the biggest difficulty was disconnecting a black cable/cord that connects to the valve body. NOTE: the gear box must be in park to remove it (I had moved the gear selector out of park to give me better access to remove the clip that secures the Bowden cable to the shifter). My golden rule working with Benz: If it doesn't fit, don't force it. The components are simply designed with some connecting feature that you have to know about.

Also, FINDING and removing the bolts that connect the torque converter to the flywheel, took a little time. Access is gained from the bottom of the bell housing. I didn't see how this was accessible at first because the some apparent engine support frame (The thing/arm that the whole front wheel assembly is mounted to) did not appear to provide access to underneath it.

The trick was to use a crow bar to pull the engine/tranny toward the back of the car just enough to gain access. I wedged the crow bar in between the bottom/front of the bell housing and that mount to get about 1.5 inch of space. I had already removed the bolts securing the drive shaft to the transmission, and moved the drive shaft out of the way enough to allow the engine/tranny to be manipulated.

Now, after gaining this little access, I wonder, "How the hell do you get the bolts out"? These are 13 mm bolts, that are about 1 cm from the edge of the bell housing. A socket on socket wrench will fit. However, to get a tight fit and keep the socket from slipping off, and to keep the flywheel from rotating I placed my pry bar on top of the socket and held it in place by pressing the prybar against the bell housing to lever on some pressure. Once loose, the bolts may be unscrewed by hand. After figuring this out, I managed to get the remaining 7 bolts out rather quickly. Access the other bolts by using a screwdriver to rotate the flywheel. Also, I used the screwdriver to carve an arrow on the bell housing so I would know which way to rotate the flywheel.

Today, I'll be working the tranny out of the car. It's seemed to be stuck last night, and I had done enough for a day. So, I'll start fresh today. Hopefully, I'll get it out without too much issue.

I found a few YouTube videos about tranny disassebly/reassembly. Looks relatively simple. So, regardless if the problem is with the pump, it looks like I get to inspect all of the components anyway. Better believe every seal, at least, will be replaced!

 

Tony,

The 722.6 is a pain to get out of W140. Since you removing the transmission, I would replace the following:

1) K2 bearing, this bearing causes the main planetary gear failure on all pre-2000 722.6's. You cannot buy this bearing for the old 722.6's from Mercedes as they updated the K2, and whole K2 is about $700 to $1200. Sonnax makes great aftermarket K2 bearing for the old planetary gears.

Sonnax - Aftermarket replacement transmission, torque converter, and high performance automotive parts

2) Inspect your conductor plate at the Hall-Effect sensors for cracks. It will look like a rupture. If cracked replace the conductor plate, this is 95% of all conductor plate failures.

3) Replace the connector and o-ring that connects to the conductor plate. With ONLY a fresh new Mercedes part.

4) Replace the plastic "Parking lock interlock" The part has been updated, but it is known to leak from the bellows. Again buy a fresh one from the Mercedes dealer.

5) Obviously, fix your front main seal leak, but Mercedes makes it a habit of saying if any copper bearing is worn. Replace the entire part that houses the bearing. Well, I would do all the Sonnax updates that do not require machining.

Sonnax - Aftermarket replacement transmission, torque converter, and high performance automotive parts[make]=11&filter[unit]=221&product_line=trans

6) replace the shift valve body pistons.

Sonnax - Aftermarket replacement transmission, torque converter, and high performance automotive parts

http://www.sonnax.com/downloads/valve-body-layouts/VBL-Mercedes-722-6.pdf

7) Now, you are getting into the transmission, so I would do a full rebuild. Here is parts diagram:

Automatic Transmission Parts Catalog - DACCO, Inc.

A 722.6 service manual is available on the W210 site:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w21...g/forums/w210-e-class/1368898-help-tips-diys-power-train-drive.html#post3573144

If you cannot get the service manual, I can show you how to get it a different way.

This is the easiest transmission to DIY.

Best of luck,

Martin

 

Oh, one more thing, Shell 134 is now available again! This is the best 722.6 fluid around....

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1691826-information-ordering-shell-atf-134-a.html

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w21...ums/w210-e-class/1425392-new-mobil-atf-134-meets-236-a.html?highlight=shell+134

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w21.../w210-e-class/1635794-236-10-atf-marketing-mumbo-jumbo.html?highlight=shell+134

Martin

 

Hey Martin!

I really didn't have much trouble getting the tranny out! It was stuck near the Crankcase position sensor, and I kept looking for a remaining bolt. But after seeing none, I just shook the thing from side to side and was able to get it loose. I lowered it with a 3-ton jack. I had to support the tranny with some another scissor type jack to remove the 3-ton jack, as I did not have enough clearance to remove the tranny on the 3-ton. I wound up sliding the tranny out from underneath the car on cardboard.

Now, I'm waiting for a 30mm, 12 pt socket, that I ordered off Ebay. Couldn't find that thing anywhere!

From the presence of the roller bearings in the tranny pan, and the lack of ATF, I do suspect K2 bearing failure. I hope the planetary, among other things, isn't history. I plan on doing quite a bit of what you suggest.

It's now 12 degrees outside! It's predicted to get back up to the 40's by the weekend. So, hopefully, I will have the tranny dis-assembled, and parts by then.

Thanks for all the info and links!

 

Tony,

Glad you got the thing out. The crankcase position sensor is it on a bracket or directly bolted to the engine or transmission?

I used a tranny jack sold by Harbor Freight

Transmission Jack - 450 Lb. Capacity

Ahhh, I know too well about 30MM 12 point socket..I too ran around looking for it. Lowes came the closest with their KOBALT tool line. You'd figure Sears would have it, NOPE... The solution was 3/4" drive large Metric socket set from Harbor Freight.

Metric 3/4" Jumbo Socket Set - 20 Piece

There is a low quality youTube on the tear-down, but this gives you an idea how to do it

Do familiarize your self with all the parts and procedure. You should obtain the service manual from the last link on post 11. Study the manual!! If you have trouble, let me know.

Remember, you had large parts floating in the oil system, so flush out the cooler lines and the radiator cooler.

1) Obviously inspect the clutch steels for bluing and scratches, bearings(roller copper), gear teeth, back of the pump gear for scoring.

2) do not re use that 30MM 12point nut.

Sign up for EPC, but doit after Tuesday because the new JAVA fix will come out, EPC needs JAVA. To get the appropriate.

If you have to get the K2 Input clutch that holds the needle bearings, you need to get from the junk yard from a "V8" 722.6 or ebay I believe they come in three sizes, again study the manual!

Do not get a rebuild kit from ebay for all the soft parts. Either DACCO transmission, Precision International, or buy it from Mercedes.

Precision International - Domestic & Foreign Transmission Kits

DACCO Transmission Parts | America's Largest Remanufacturer of Torque Converters

Now, I think Mercedes has a soft parts kit, but you need to load EPC on your computer to get the diagrams and part numbers.

Wholesale Parts Department - Mercedes-Benz of Anaheim is the #1 Parts Dealer in the Nation

If you go the Mercedes parts way, I get my parts wholesale form Anaheim Mercedes, talk to Omar. Send Omar an email on your parts request from EPC listings.

Best of luck,

Martin

 

Martin,

The crankshaft position sensor holder appears to be on a bracket that is mounted to the engine. The transmission casing is built around it, and separate from it.

I did notice that a ground cable is attached to a nearby tranny bolt. It must be copper as it has a greenish rust covering it. I'm contemplating replacing this with a negative battery cable, as a few fuses have recently blown. I figure I can remove a possible short for a few bucks.

Sears only had the short socket. I called harbor freight, but they didn't mention the socket set. I purchased the socket for $12 on Ebay.

Thanks for the parts sources!

 

Tony,

You are welcome, I did not ask this: Was your car in limp mode prior to removing the transmission? If it was in limp mode, you will to have it reset through the circular connector-not the OBDII, or buy your own tester once the rebuild is finished.

I'm guessing the transmission has to be dipped from the rear while being connected the engine to access the bracket?

Those ground cables can get like that especially in the snowy areas. After you clean the surfaces and put the cable spray that Mercedes Conformal coating, or use Electronic Conformal Coating from the Electronic Parts supply house.

Never call Harbor Freight, Just look on the web. The 3/4" drive 30mm socket its not a deep socket because it is 3/4" it clears the bolt.


Best of luck,

Martin

 

Martin,

I don't know if the car entered limp mode. No lights came on. Moreover, immediately after hearing the first sign of a problem I started "limping" on my own. I don't think I drove faster than 25 mph.

I only saw one 13 mm bolt holding that sensor bracket on. It is accessible without removing the tranny. However, I removed the sensor because I initially thought it might be clipped by the tranny during removal. But, I don't think that was necessary. I'll check for a second bolt when I'm back under there.

I'll look into the cable coating. But, I figure an insulated battery cable might provide better protection, and I think I have a new spare from an amp install.

I probably didn't see the socket set at Harbor Freight because my search was focused on the single socket.

Tony

 

Tony,

When in limp mode you only get first or second gear, and reverse. If you did not get any of those, you are okay..

The cable, it is about the connection to the tranny, and more important the connection to the body of the car. The Mercedes stuff has a name to it, but I cannot remember it. Conformal coating is the stuff(shellac) put on circuit boards to protect them from moisture. It is available as a spray or bottle.
GC electronics or MG chemicals make the stuff.

Martin

 

Greetings again!

I finally got the 30 mm, 12 pt and got the trans disassembled to find the teeth in planet's pinions and the rear sun gear, chipped. Also, the rim of the holder for the B2? retainer was half way worn off. The bearing in the planet was indeed all but gone, leaving just enough of its body to show that it had a terrible death.

The interesting thing, is that after counting the teeth on the various planet components and looking these parts up on DACCO, some are for the Chrysler. I figure the trans was rebuilt because I saw marker pen writing on it. It is identified as a 722.622, 14002706000. I googled the trans number and saw that a 722.622 is Benz. I read that exchanging these parts will cause failure, but also that upgrades have been made in response to plane failure. So, I'm trying to figure out which has occurred, and whether to replace these parts with those that have the original teeth count, which I'm leaning toward.

So, now I'm checking to see how many of the planetary parts are Chrysler. The center sun gear has 30 Teeth; rear pinions (22 T); Rear Sun gear (50 T); center ring gear (74 T); Rear ring gear (90), Front ring gear (79 T).

I didn't get any indicator lights before failure. But God knows what has been bypassed. Other than that, this is a relatively simple DIY. My neighbor, a regular garage mechanic is astonished that I even attempted this! The parts only really fit one way. I'll surely take this opportunity to re-build this this as suggested, Martin. After seeing this, I rather have the confidence in knowing whats in this rebuild, rather than in someone else's 1 year warranty.

Martin, thanks for the road map! It's been very helpful!

Tony

 

Tony you have come-out of hibernation!!!

Though "Sunny California" dipped in the "20's and 30" while you were in hibernation-too cold here. I could just imagine being in zeros or teens... in Chicago.. You got move to the state of Bikinis, higher taxes, and Earthquakes!!!!-oh, no salt on the roads too...

The V8-V12 transmissions are similar in clutch packs. I hope you are not going at it blind, and you have printed out the service manual-it is on page 3 and 10

While you were hibernating, My S500 tranny started to get louder and louder, and I decommissioned the car, so I would not ruin it more. I will attack it in a month or two from now, but I will replace the gears with original teeth. If you go to Peachparts forum, do a search on a user named "roncallo"

PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum - Powered by vBulletin

Look at everything about 722.6 he has written...

The 722.6 is easy compared to the 722.5-722.3

Now, tip, when you get your rebuild kit and you get Teflon o rings. Make sure you buy a little tub of transmission assembly grease, and you clean the metal surfaces with denatured alcohol, and generously coat the Teflon o-rings with the grease-It holds the o-rings closed, so you can assemble the parts without breaking or bending these fragile o-rings.

Do a search for the service manual for the Chrysler Crossfire as it to has a step by step on the 722.6.

Like I said before, A transmission is just a puzzle-full of o-rings, clutches, few bearings, and some gears...

I hope you have been taking lot of pictures of the process, so you do not forget something..

Martin

 

Did your planets, and planetary ring look like this, second to the last picture.

Getriebeschaden Automatik Info - CLK, SLK, E-Klasse Coupé & Cabrio - Mercedes-Forum.com

Shoot some pictures of the damaged gears, and put them up here.

Martin

 

Some food for thought

Tony,

Some food for thought:

I have one more, but it is too large to post, so I would need your email.

Martin

 

Sure did go into hibernation! I prepared to stay in for the duration of the freeze! Didn't step one foot outside!

I dream of having a second home for the winter. I've been thinking of starting a small resort on some island to support my beach bum lifestyle! I love Chicago in the summer, and wouldn't rather be anywhere else. I'm hoping the pole shift of whatever is going on makes Chicago the new Miami in the winter!

So, you're having problems, too, huh! Sucks! It's a damned shame I feel like I have to have a second car in order to have this 90's Benz. Thankfully, I have one.

Anyway, I have read as much of that manual that is available. I'll probably download it or get some other manual before doing the rebuild.

For now, it's pre-boating/bike season. I have so many expenses at this time of the year, I've got to go do a lil hustling to make some money to pay for all this!

Anybody hiring!?

 

That's my dream to have the poles shift...

Yea, my S500 took a dump, but all these W140s will go through this as time goes by. NO ONE is immune to the problem. Some will pay $2k to $6k for the fix, and some pay several hundred dollars. Leave with a wealth of knowledge. I just swap cars with my E320. My S320 I have that tranny on the table, and I'm on the re-assembly phase of it-what a can of worms of parts...

That is what is cooking..

Martin

 

Post pics!? Now, I'm challenged! ...working on it...

 

Tony,

Here is the location of the Crossfire service manual. The manual you want is the 2004 coupe version(80.3Meg). The manual has about 3000 pages. The transmission section is excellent, and it starts on page 2580. Very well written, and lots of service tips. The transmission section is about 150 pages.

Crossfire Documentation Collection - CrossfireForum.org

The NAG1=722.6 transmission

Martin