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Is W221 a W140 killer?

39K views 138 replies 32 participants last post by  salman108 
#1 ·
Have you ever thought about buying W221 instead of W140 recently? Prices of W221 have dropped significantly (you can buy W221 for 25,000EUR in Germany with mileage under 100,000Km).

How much do you spend on a W140 with the same mileage?
Price of a very good W140 is around 15,000 to 20,000EUR. That's not a huge difference.

I believe maintenance will be the same or maybe more expensive with W140 (not speaking of V12 :surrender:)

I admire W140 road presence and I'd like to buy a good one (but it is hard to find). On the other hand, won't W221 (or even W216) bring more satisfaction?
Is W140 ride quality really so much better over the W221?

I'm not including W220 for known reasons so please exclude them from this discussion.
 
#5 ·
#8 ·
I have a 97 SL320 and a 97 C140 - both have airbags that just "expired" according to the tags on the door sills. Although I don't really have any idea what replacement would cost I would expect the cost to be extreme. Any thoughts ---
I think one airbag is around 1,000EUR and no chance buying them 2nd hand or 3rd party so even if you can get good discounts from MB it will be costly.
Just a thought about safety but my primary concern was purchase price and maintenance costs overall.

There is one solution to the airbag problem, drive W124 without airbags at all like I do :) in 1992 there were no airbags as standard I guess, they started 1993 in W124 and maybe earlier in certain models.
 
#9 ·
Original Premis

This thread started with a comment that in Europe nice W140's are selling for 15,000-20,000 Euros. If my dollar conversion is accurate that equates to roughly $20-26,000. Is my math correct? If so why aren't more W140's being exported to Europe from the US. I see a business opportunity. Please tell me I have the math wrong.
Jre32 - Jan
 
#13 ·
This thread started with a comment that in Europe nice W140's are selling for 15,000-20,000 Euros. If my dollar conversion is accurate that equates to roughly $20-26,000. Is my math correct? If so why aren't more W140's being exported to Europe from the US. I see a business opportunity. Please tell me I have the math wrong.
Jre32 - Jan
Why not! It's the same with Japan imports.. check out this European auction:
http://www.ebay.es/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290684405612&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:ES:1123

1993 short version for $14,000USD
 
#10 ·
a w221 is a piece of $hit when it comes to quality (compared to the W140) a mechanic friend of mine was working on a 2008 he had the complete trunk apart and you can see the metal/frame looked like a Honda Accord.

As far as prices go in the US you can get a clean W140 for $5-8000 and a W221 is $25000+ so a pretty big difference in price
 
#15 ·
W140 Export Business

My mind always reverts to my "pre-retirement" period and converts everything into a potential business opportunity. If these relative values (US vs Europe) why isn't someone snapping up all the clean W140's up in the US and exporting them to Europe? If true this will ultimately drive up the value in the US. I personally love my C140 and have no intent to sell it in the near future. Not at all sure what I woul consider as a replacement.
Jre32 - Jan
 
#17 ·
My mind always reverts to my "pre-retirement" period and converts everything into a potential business opportunity. If these relative values (US vs Europe) why isn't someone snapping up all the clean W140's up in the US and exporting them to Europe? If true this will ultimately drive up the value in the US. I personally love my C140 and have no intent to sell it in the near future. Not at all sure what I woul consider as a replacement.
Jre32 - Jan
Have you seen the price of fuel in Europe lately.
 
#16 ·
In this you will see the A pillar did crumple, as it is supposed to do, thus absorbing impact. But the car did have a low frontal impact and thus the air bags deployed saving the mans life. Like I said we do not have sensors high enough to deploy the bags if the car goes under a truck and the impact is on the A pillars alone.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...ds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEup-HDTC5dzTXZy66P5Er6SxtSMA
 
#20 · (Edited)
This should help you.

I spent two years deciding which car to buy after an earlier S class probably saved my life.

After speaking to almost everyone on the forum who works on these cars, particularly Eric, and after test driving W140 back to back with W221 I bought a W140.

Now a 221 may well be safer in many ways, IF all its gizmos work. But it does scare me to have something else (lane assist etc) driving the car I am driving.

I still think a spike in the middle of the steering wheel is the most extreme form of road safety, even though it's not a good idea....! A motorcycle works just as well, in getting people to take responsibility.

Dan - out of interest what do you think of the safety of the 215 vs the 220. I know from Eric the 220 sucks in a crash, but I do like the 05/06 215.

OP - my view is ether a decent 221 or a 140 would be safe bets, but I would always avoid the first year (or two) of a model range if I could afford to do so.

Eric - great to see you posting - in your personal view Eric, based on what you've seen would you get a 140 or a 221 for maximum occupant protection, if it was one of your kids or family member? And lastly Eric, the 215 as bad as teh 220 or not as bad?
 
#22 ·
well def the W221 is much more to maintain, more electronics that go or will eventually go bad. plus the W221 has Air Suspension each shock is $1500, the Radiator fan is almost $700 and the control arms are like $350 each, and there is 1 upper and 2 lowers, this is just some of the common parts that go bad and are expensive
 
#29 ·
Some have airmatic which has been upgraded since the days of the W220 and therefore problems have been ironed out, some have ABC, note the ABC problems associated with the 220 do not exist on the 221.

As for electronic problems, I would put it on a par with the 220, but it does have far more of them so yes there are some problems there.

The body has no iron in it, and therefore able to absorb impact better.
 
#27 · (Edited)
^^^ I work for a Mercedes Dealer (parts Dept) and i sell quite a few parts for W221's and they are not cheap by any means but i see you drive a W220 which is the same POS as the W221. BTW when your 4-Matic needs lower control arms that are $700 or Front Air Shocks $1100 Front Driveshaft $1200 a Blower Motor $800 or Engine Fan $1150 give me call and then we'll talk about expensive maintenace
 
#30 ·
Who, in their right mind, buys parts from the stealer?
 
#28 · (Edited)
Although the airbags say they are expired, chances are they will work fine.

I forget where I read this but airbags do not really have an expiration date. Sorry I can't back this up because I can't find the post I read it on.

I'm confident all the airbags on my S420 would work just fine even though the car is 15 years old. Let's hope I don't have to test that theory though.

Back to topic. I like the W221 but with so many other used high end luxury car choices out there on the market these days I think the S550 just isn't special anymore... (inside and out) :surrender: I still respect the car but it feels like Mercedes didn't go all out with the new W221 like they should have. Then again the W220 interior was even worse since it lost it's 'luxury car look' and everything seemed cheapened. Then again it all comes down to personal opinion. The base price is also relatively low compared to what the W140 was (inflation adjusted) so corners were cut somewhere right?

Maybe it's just me but the only advantage the W221 has over the W140 is that it's a new car with high end technology. The W140 is such a well built car all around that if you put the same technology inside it then I think the W221 would be obsolete. The main difference being the W140 won't ever handle as good as the W221 without sacrificing ride comfort. Maybe give the W140 a modified W221 suspension :D
 
#34 ·
Sorry to bump in, but the most expensive W140 I have ever seen for sale was a 1997 S280 with Cloth Upholstery and 12.000Km's(not even broken in properly) for 27.000 Euros.

More examples:
A 1998 S420(clean as can be) with 85.000KM's is around 12.000 Euros
A 1998 S320(top condition and Bird-Eye Maple Trims :p) with 83.000KM's is 17.000 Euros

Mercedes-Benz S 320 , Mod.1998, deut.Fahrzg, 83tkm, Top Ausstg als Limousine in Uelsby

Those are 2 examples of extremely well kept W140's but of course you can find clean ones for much less.

Suchergebnisse: Pkw bei mobile.de

Check them out...
 
#41 ·
Sorry but you don't really want to drive 2-ton beast with 220hp.... you want S500L automatic with good options under 100,000Km. That I consider a W140, although the example you posted is a nice one, it's still only a S320. I think W140 deserves V8 or V12.
Like this Mercedes-Benz 500 SEL *W140*1.Hand*orig.69.000km*deutsch.Fahrz*1992 for 19,900EUR:
Mercedes-Benz 500 SEL *W140*1.Hand*orig.69.000km*deutsch.Fahrz als Limousine in Isernhagen

and also this one is nice S500 1995 86,000Km for 24,800EUR:
Mercedes-Benz S 500 Rarität im neuwertigem Sammlerzustand !! als Limousine in Wiesbaden

Everyone can go through mobile.de and see that:
- Good W140 is hard to find and good W140 in Europe is expensive

Even high mileage cars are very expensive (S600 with 190,000Km for 19,000EUR) while W221 S500L 2008 with 60,000Km can be bought for 30,000EUR.
 
#36 ·
I wish the w140 rear end was a little slicker like the w220 is. Beyond that I look at these newer cars benz and bmw alike and all i see is the same looking stuff. Camry, impala, Taurus, etc. The euro w126 IMHO was one of the most bad ass looking luxury cars, and if it had the interior of the w140.....I would be on one like white on rice.
Our w140's are ancient dinosaurs by todays standards but they work. They work well. They do everything well.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using AutoGuide.com App
 
#37 ·
Nice to see praise for the W126 - they rock!

Amazing cars; one could say they are more of a half way house between W140 and E38, in terms of waftability and driving comfort vs. more zest and feel.

Just a thought...?
 
#38 ·
I saw a euro looking w126 at my Indie last week. I liked it. The inside is not bad but I do have a taste for a little more modern look which is why in some instances I do prefer the e38 interior a little more.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using AutoGuide.com App
 
#48 ·
In all honesty, who cares which is better? The people who want all of the modern electronic gadgetry will buy the 221, and the rest of us who like the more "classic" MB feel will buy the older cars. I am finally done with 140's--I just sold my coupe last week. I'm on to bigger and better things once I figure out what that may be... Once the class action suit gets settled in CA, I certainly wouldn't mind trying one of the '10 S63's. I have been cruising around in one of our (for retail) '09 E350 sports recently....great cars! I do not care for the slightly higher ride height on the 4matics, nor do I particularly like the V6 motors. I used to hate all of the voice command, nav, etc in the newer cars, but now I am changing my tune. Those features actually are quite nifty. I will say that the build quality lacks the older "German feel" of the 80-90s cars, but for a modern car the newer Benz's are very nice. If nothing else, it's nice to work on the new cars without 10 years of road grime caked onto every surface underneath and rusted bolts everywhere.
 
#49 ·
Have you ever thought about buying W221 instead of W140 recently? Prices of W221 have dropped significantly (you can buy W221 for 25,000EUR in Germany with mileage under 100,000Km).
How much do you spend on a W140 with the same mileage?
Price of a very good W140 is around 15,000 to 20,000EUR. That's not a huge difference.
Coming back to the original question here ,Is 221 a 140 killer ,looks like it should be "Is W140 a W221 killer " ,looking at the price comparision ,yes it is ,the W140 in years could be more expensive to buy then a W221 just that then ,will a buyer go for lots of gadjets or the simpler 140 ,mmh ,already here some w220's are cheaper ,the same price or slightly more expensive then a W140 .
Never not once have i concider'd looking at or buying a W221 yet ,i'm happy with the one i got ,even that she is sick right now . :thumbsup:
 
#50 ·
Now that I see your location, I must say Καλυσπερα. Did you ever ride in a W140 S280 or S320? they are amazing L6 engines capable of pushing this whale and they do it pretty fast, believe me. You can't just discriminate W140's with smaller engines and toss them away in a category on the lines of W140-ish.

Regarding the prices on post 150k Km W140's, I am willing to take a chance and bet you that No S600(except armored ones) with 190.000Km will sell for more than 5k Euros(and that's for a clean one).

Αγοράστε ένα W140! Θα το αγαπήσετε

Got that right?
 
#52 ·
221s are still a lot of money and any cheaper ones will likely reflect that in the condition of the car.

wait for the new one to come out next year. thats when the 221 will tank in values except the limited trims
 
#56 ·
That's good to know!!! How ya doing TA? Any good concerts coming up?

I feel the need for speed and Mahler 6 to blow a few cobwebs out of what's left of this winter.

Anyone fancy a quick night ride from AZ to CO?
 
#57 ·
Things are awesome, not too much going on. Church is busy with Easter coming. Got a few transcribed organ works going and just started Bach 543 Prelude and Fugue. The a-moll.

AZ to CO, when?!?! Fly me there and I'll take care of the rest.
 
#62 ·
Thanks very much Eric, it sounds then from what you say that you feel the 215 is perhaps safer than the 220? I don't want to be putting words in your mouth, so would you be kind enough to answer what will be my last question on the subject!!!!

Safety:- 215 vs 220

Thanks again Eric; as your answers have assisted me a great deal and gave me the assurance to get my 140. Appreciated :thumbsup:
 
#63 ·
We do not have that many W215 here in China and thus I have not seen too many accident 215's so my experience is limited with actual accidents on this model.

But it is a two door with no 'B' pillar and thus will have a stronger basic chassis than the bigger 220, so in a normal, run of the mill, low speed accident it should fair much better than the 220.

However it is a much lighter car and I cannot say how it would fair in a high speed accident.
 
#71 ·
Sadly I have to agree with these two, but the total quality is not down the toilet, well not yet. I hope they learn from mistakes.

But the 722.9 should have remained a proto type until enough tests were done. To take a control unit and attach it to the valve body and submerge it in transmission fluid was risky to say the least.
 
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