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Saving a 92 500sel

11K views 128 replies 18 participants last post by  Daniel R 
#1 ·
I found this car and want to save it! The only thing I can find wrong with it is the standard engine wiring issues. I have always loved this style Mercedes, and am glad there are others whom share my opinion of them. I purchased this one incredibly cheaply. I know that is usually a bad sign, but I know the original owner (who I bought it from) and he always maintains everything. I hope to repair the harnesses and enjoy this nice ride.
All this being said, where can I get the harness from affordably? Am I better off rebuilding it myself? ( I am a master mechanic, but have mainly repaired american cars, and some classic british) What should I watch for other than wiring, and the cooling "T-Pipe"?
thanks
Dan:)
 

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#36 ·
Anytime buddy..

Goodluck with replacing / rebuilding your harness!
 
#40 ·
Daniel: You're now thinking properly.

The problem with rebuilding your old wiring harness is: You get a problem with the electrical system with your car, you'll never know if it's the harness or not, whether your fix is holding or not.

The risk is: you can blow your engine! The wiring harness is a known cause of engine failures, causing too much fuel to go into the cylinders, causing cylinder wash. I know! I have a blown engine due to a faulty wiring harness! Good for nothing! Can't rebuild a blown M120 motor! Can't rebuild a blown M119 motor, either.
 
#43 ·
yeah I am looking at 250 to build my own ( not counting my time) vs 595 for a factory harness. I know I could build it, I have built far more intricate parts for higher risk components. Just hard to justify unless I can't find it. hopefully Eddie can find me one built after 97
 
#47 ·
Did you miss post 27? Shipped to your door should be about $540. Rebuilding shouldn't be more than $50 - or you're doing something wrong. But it's lots of time, and it's not going to be as pretty. The factory harness is not that great - TXL grade insulation, some sloppy lengths, etc. You can easily build a better one - but it takes a lot of time. I say building a nice wiring harness is great fun, but if you don't agree with that, or don't want to spend the time, by all means buy it. It will certainly look better at resale time, should that ever come.
 
#48 ·
Deanyel and others:

There are two wiring harnesses in our cars: there is the engine harness and the body harness. Two different harnesses. The engine harness is easier to install, cheaper to buy new, and probably the one most are referring to when talking about rebuilding it. Not impossible to do, a PITA to do, less risky in terms of it lacking the 'trickiest' connectors.

OTOH, the body harness connects the 'mouse-coffin', or computers, to up to 40 different applications around the car. I opine this harness is IMPOSSIBLE to rebuild correctly. It is the body harness that is most likely to fail, it is the one that is buried throughout the car, it is the one that has the most varied amount of connector types, as per the photograph below:
 

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#50 ·
Knock it off; you're kidding yourself. It's not the wires that are the hard part. The job revolves around the connectors. You can't just snip them off and reconnect them, you have to crimp them with a specialty machine after removing all the old wires WITHIN the connector. If you think this is simple. you're just kidding yourself.

Did you look at the photo with all the connectors? Did I mention to you that a body harness takes about 4-hours to remove and another 8-hours to install?

12-hours of labor (at least) just for pulling/putting the harness? Too much time value to leave it to an 'iffy' re-insulating job...

Want to get REALLY frustrated with your ownership experience? Go through this process you are suggesting and find out the harness still fails.
 
#51 ·
Look..... I don't know what your issue is about people fixing their own cars.
I know I CAN build it. I know I might to spite you, but if you re read MY post you will see that I was listing why I was going to buy a factory harness.
The cost is honestly very close, so why not buy the one with a warranty?

Congratulations you blew up your car because you didn't build yours right.
You said that already.

Some of us actually can fix things, and want to!
Sorry I didn't buy mine when it was $100,000 I have $60.00 in mine so far.
If I want to neck it up and make it a 4X4 I can. Know what? I got me a nice 350 performance GM Crate motor that would make it sound real good.

Another thing, I also happen to own the crimp tool for repairing automotive wiring harnesses.
So, a Little hint, Play nice, stop being so condescending. You may have a wealth of information, but the way you pass it on leaves a lot to be desired
 
#58 · (Edited)
Dan, everything that both Stryker* and I (and others) have told you is true - it's just that we have differing opinions.

Agreed: it's a hell of a job
Agreed: if you buy a factory loom it'll be guaranteed and make life easier and more secure, you're less likely to cock things up
Agreed: the connectors are a total pig to deal with.... but having done such things before (including fabricating connectors to fit surplus Russian radio equipment) I now know what I'm up against and how to do the job.
Agreed: unless you know what you're doing you could cause a catastrophic failure

Personally I have plenty of wire, heatshrink, test equipment and tools on hand (I'm a Ham Radio enthusiast too!), plus a copy of all the wiring diagrams. I've built a *lot* of stuff over the years. The only thing I don't have is time - so if I needed a car back and running quickly I'd buy a loom. If it's a hobby restoration and I can take my time I'd build a loom.

Your call :)

Dave



* And YES, Stryker absolutely *does* know his stuff - be in no doubt about that!
 
#57 ·
Hey Folks, just a reminder to all what Daniel_R has stated on his first posting on this thread...He is a Master Machanic. It's not on MB cars, but still...that's saying a lot more than most of us can tell about ourselves. So, let's not go telling him things that he already know (ie. deciding to build or buy new...I believe he has a lot more experience than us in make these sort of decisions). Let's try to support him on this new car of his...
 
#59 ·
No disrespect, but I think all of Strykers comments on this thread are not helping anybody..

The way he goes on, I would swear he is some kind of ambassador for Mercedes Benz Stealerships..

I've decided against replacing my wire harness on my S320. Was also going to replace it, but the price even from the breakers is damn high. Not to mention I just found out about compatibility issues with pre and post facelift models..

So I'm going to rebuild mine myself! And I will make a build thread about it here on the forum..

I have liked many of your posts Stryker, but in this thread discouraging people from rebuilding the wire harness is not necessary..

I say goodluck Dan, let us know what you chose to do. And no matter what, post pics!!!

Cheers comrades
 
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#60 ·
I still think Stryker should be required to disclose with his every post that he's upside down in his own car SIX TIMES OVER. We all get upside down now and then but here's a guy who's has invested in his present car around six times more than its market value. I ask you - is that the work of a person who knows what they're doing? I think, and I'm completely serious, that readers should have a right to know that. If you think the forum is a tool for cost effective operation, as I do, this is a cancer.
 
#61 ·
Ok I took a nap, I feel better.
I got my car because of desire and luck. This is a hobby build for me. It won't be Concours, but it won't be JC Whitney either. I do agree it is better to do it right, but we don't need to turn this,(or any other) thread into a general bashing section.
I am here to learn/commiserate from/with other W140 owners. I want to fix this car for FUN! not because I need a daily driver.
And as far as my previous post goes, yes I have the 350/ no I am not putting it in my 500!!! lol
Now On a lighter note, is anyone going to the Street Rod Nationals in Louisville this week?? Starting today thru sunday.
Dan
 
#62 · (Edited)
Daniel: The difference between intelligence and wisdom is the ability to learn from what other people do. Choose to act as you wish. But a wise person seeks to learn through others.

MafiaDon: I'm not pimping for anyone. I don't care if the wiring harness comes from the dealer, a dismantler, a second-hand store, the Burpee Seed catalog.

I just know that trying to rebuild a complex wiring harness without the right tools, the right manufacturing capabilities, is impossible to get right. For someone to think this is something you can fix at home using conventional materials, well, you're just kidding yourself. But since Daniel seems to take my advice and shift it to suit his agenda, let's all sit around and watch the progress he makes as he attempts making a bad situation worse.

And yup, I am about 10-times upside down on my cars. But that only counts if you intend to sell your car(s), which I don't. Besides, I can use the tax deductions that come from those repair bills.

But you won't find better examples of a very high class marque. Needless to say, no home-made ersatz repairs made on my cars. And for those of you who intend on keeping your cars, I don't recommend them.

For those of you who are trying to make repairs on the cheap, then 'flip' your cars, a disclaimer should be noted to the buyer, no?

Or you believe in 'Caveat Emptor'?
 
#63 · (Edited)
I just know that trying to rebuild a complex wiring harness without the right tools, the right manufacturing capabilities, is impossible to get right. For someone to think this is something you can fix at home using conventional materials, well, you're just kidding yourself. But since Daniel seems to take my advice and shift it to suit his agenda, let's all sit around and watch the progress he makes as he attempts making a bad situation worse.
If you again read my previous post, I am planning on buying my ENGINE harness. My BODY harness seems fine, but we will see.

I am planning on building correctly, I like my car, but this is a HOBBY build. I don't care of the cost, I want to build it right. But I also want to do the work myself. (not much of a hobby if someone else does my work.) I do beleive many people on this thread have valuable contributions. But many also do not.

There is also a difference between reading and comprehending.
Carpe Diem
 
#64 ·
Hmmm, your quote, above, is hard to comprehend. You say you are buying a harness, yet you say you will build it yourself, in the same quote.

If you mean you will install it yourself, by all means, that's a terrific use of time!

What I refer to as a waste of your time is to try to build a harness with "McGyver" tools. You simply can't do it. But a good harness? You can surely install it yourself! No problem!

Good luck with that!
 
#66 ·
Bloody hell. This thread is turning into a bit of a Handbags At Two Paces situation.

If money is no object, Dan - then buy the factory loom.

I personally have utmost confidence in my ability to rebuild one (and have proved so in the past) so under the circumstances of time and no money that's what I'd do. If I had the money to throw at a car and the mindset to invest more in the car than it's worth because it's my hobby and it's probably cheaper than drinking / fast women / gambling (delete as applicable) OR I needed a car fixing quickly then I'd buy one.

To answer Stryker's point above, I *always* believe in Caveat Emptor whether I'm buying or selling. That goes somewhat against the grain in socialist, "Nanny State" Europe these days but what the hell.

Enjoy the rebuild, Dan.
 
#67 ·
You can rebuild the engine wiring loom, if you know what you're doing.

The issue comes when something in the loom still does not work after the rebuild. It can be difficult to diagnose. That being said It's actually not impossible to find the fault. Normally you would expect a car which is running with a bad harness to be throwing some codes - hook up a code scanner, examine the wiring around that system and you've likely found the fault.

Personally I wouldn't rebuild a harness because for $500 bucks or whatever it is to buy a new one I think it's a pretty easy and relatively cheap repair for something which is a once in a lifetime replacement.

The body harnesses very rarely go bad, I'd be surprised if you had to replace it.
 
#69 ·
NZBenz:

I've had to replace two body harnesses And two engine harnesses: both on my 1992 600SEL, and both on my 1995 S600 coupe.

On my coupe, I used new harnesses, one installed by my indie (engine) and the other installed by the dealer.

On my 1992, I (and a freind) installed used ones found from a dismantler. Remember the photos? We did the work as we installed a new engine/tranny.

What are you talking about? When it is time to use a dealer, I suggest you use a dealer. When you can do the work yourself, I'm all for that! Or are you just busting balls??

I just do NOT suggest trying to rebuild the wiring harnesses. They're too technical with the connectors to work on at home!
 
#70 ·
NZBenz:


I just do NOT suggest trying to rebuild the wiring harnesses. They're too technical with the connectors to work on at home!
hahahahahahaha:big laugh::big laugh::big laugh:

Comrade are serious???????

Ok, if the wires consisted of fibre optics, and the connectors had delicate gold plated pins, maybe you would have a case..

But these W140 wire harnesses are the same as normal speaker wire, just high temperature resistant lol.. Any person with even basic soldering experience could rebuild W140 engine wire harness.. Just depends on how good their soldering skills are which will determine how well it has been rebuilt..

You are offering the wrong advice my friend, even the OP not replying to your posts anymore..

Yes we heard you already..

dealership, replace, replace, STEALERSHIP, replace replace... OK!!!! We got it..

But other people have better things to do with their money than throw it away into the STEALERSHIPS fat pockets, for something they could have easily repaired themselves for less than a fraction of the cost..

Its kind of a no brainer.. Il be rebuilding my wire harness on my S320 hopefully soon, will let you know how it goes Stryker..

Because so far I have not spent more than a total of $100 at the stealerships since I have owned both of my S-Classes. Im boycotting them completely lol...
 
#73 ·
Fair Question:

It's not just a 'mechanical crimp', the wires tuck into the end points. The end points are varied, they're not all the same type.

Two fold problem: If the wires connect inside the connectors, you will have a tendency to re-wrap only to the connector, over some existing soy-based insulation. You surely won't re-wrap inside the connector. The problem will still be the soy-based insulation, some on the wires, some still within the connector, which will turn, quite literally, to dust.

The other side of this is: Rodents are attracted to the soy! They'll sniff it out and start knawing on your good wires to get to whatever soy may be left anywhere. Especially if you keep the car quiet during the winter, when many of us put our precious W140's away from winter driving!

Make sense??
 
#75 ·
No disrespect comrade, but from that statement its clear to me that you have not actually rebuilt or repaired any S-Class engine wire harness with your own hands.

Had to repair my wire harness on my S500 early in the build, re soldering many connection points (some fuel injector plugs etc..) Even had to replace a piece of wire, by splicing and soldering it. (Got some OEM Mercedes wire for that)

Was NOT and IMPOSSIBLE task as you previously stated..


DAN:

Great to hear everything else works on the car.. After you sorted out the wire harness issue, might want to check the suspension parts, mounts and any other rubber components on the suspension.

Does your Data Card state if the car has SLS installed? The rear accumulators tend to fail often, I still have to replace mine on my S320. (Mine sitting slighty low at the back because of that)

Best of luck.. Still waiting for more pics!
 
#74 ·
Much of that explanation is expecting an incomplete job. What I have been curious about, is why not remove the old terminal from the connectors, replace them with the wiring? That way no old material except the plastic body of the connector. The metal ends are not unique.they can be purchased.

Carpe Diem
 
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