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V8 is finished.

2K views 32 replies 12 participants last post by  MT_Merc 
#1 ·
Well NA V8 that is. The 2016 Lexus LS460 had one of the last NA v8 engines. I had a 2008 LS460 with that same engine and it was a gem, just like all of their previous V8s, which I owned as well.
The reason I am bringing this up is, the next generation LS will have a twin turbo v6, which is a huge letdown to me and many other LS fans.
More importantly, the sad truth is very clear. NA v8 days in luxury cars are over. Some sports cars might hang on to them, but who knows.
With that said. Ill be hanging on to my 92 LSC, my 420 SEL, and be buying another LS460 at some point. As much as I like turbocharging, I don't need the complexity, the expense and worrying about things breaking down.
Any chance of owning a newer S550 must be done with an extended warranty and the car must be sold soon after the warranty is finished.

I even though about a 09 ot 10 CL550, I think from there on its a 4.4 TT.

Just thinking out loud.
 
#3 ·
I can attest to the E430, "as long as it is running well". My ex-wife's ran great until about 175k, then became a huge money pit as the electronics started failing. A repair that "only" costs $500 was a treat for that car. But man, it ran like a scalded cat! The sound of that engine was truly like music (the engine, not the exhaust). I would imagine if you found a low mileage example and maintained it well, you might be ok. I spent over $3000 on transmission electronics alone, and there was nothing mechanically wrong with it... overly complex.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
 
#5 ·
I 'sold' my 420 to one of my daughters so I still get to drive it once in awhile. Or work on it, whichever comes first. :)

The surge of power is intoxicating, especially coming from what is a rather plain looking sedan and -oh god- do I love the seats. Most of the problems have been stereo/HVAC related, the engine is strong as a horse. The paint sucks tho.
 
#4 ·
I agree that the V-8 may become an endangered species, especially in cars. If you set aside the American stalwarts (Mustang, Corvette, Challenger), you find even most sports cars moving rapidly away from V-8s. And it's not just V-6s either, you've got Porsche switching the Boxster to a four, for one, not to mention the WRX and EVO. Even in trucks things seem to be changing, mostly Ford with the Ecoboost, but who knows what's next.

Then you've got everything new becoming hideously complex, especially the turbo stuff. When you think about it, you have to wonder if trying to push a typical car past 200,000 will be hopelessly impractical before long. There are so many sensors and electronics on a new car, the only way to keep the cost reasonable is to do a lot of service life engineering and make all those components as cheaply as possible. It's one thing when you've got four or five sensors to replace, how about when you've got forty or fifty and they all start failing at the same time? We may have reached the point where it's easier to keep a solid, low-mile W126 going another twenty years than to get a new car to go that long.

Well, I guess it's not hard to tell where I stand. I've got four vehicles, and the one thing they have in common is they all have V-8s! One of them is slightly turbocharged, yes, but that setup is about as simple as they get - doesn't even have a wastegate!
 
#7 ·
I fear for combustion engines in general. Holland is considering banning the sale of diesels & petrol cars altogether by 2025 I think. Apparently it was dialled back from banning all existing ones too. Holland do some clever stuff, it's a nice place to go, but how sad this is needed. I can only think other places will follow suit at some point.

If only people were more sensible with cars, it makes me sad. Here now people will drive to the shop you can almost see down the road. It's absurd. Everything is covered in traffic filth & the roads are so hard to get through, just a standstill.

A V8 doesn't have to be bad if you use it properly. I know a guy that uses an SL63 to go to my gym, and he says that's about it. His journey is shorter than my 10min bike journey... Poor car, apart from anything else.

N/A for me too, never been a fan of turbo's.
 
#8 ·
I dont think any of the german cars are meant to last past 100k miles, heck the warranty period is there for a reason. If people who can afford to lease them every 3 years keep leasing them, then what is the incentive for a car maker to make a long lasting car?? There isn't one. Which is why I was with Lexus for the last 10 years and it was a great journey. Extremely reliable cars .

As for E420-430. I was never crazy about the looks, even though I like it more now than when they came out in 96. I would never say no to a E55 of that era. w140 S500 is on the future I think. Friend of mine just got a low mile 09 S550 and loves it.
 
#9 ·
Yeah leasing is extremely popular now, and you're probably right, it just fits in or encourages the disposable car attitude.

We've been ok at work with our previous W221, and our 730LD - a couple of small problems but actually a very nice car. The 7 series before that was a nightmare, as soon as the warranty period end drew near. That was got rid of SO fast. Even the dealer was mystified at its complex electrical problems.

Having said that, none of these cars we use are high mileage, just gently used private chauffeur cars.
 
#10 ·
the only thing more popular than a Hyundai Sonata is a used bmw coming off a lease (no facts, just saying)
 
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#11 ·
I think one of the reasons that people dislike turbo engines is because manufacturers use pretty crappy turbos. So instead of adding to an engine's performance, it's just there for emissions reasons and is usually a wonky system that breaks down often. Aftermarket turbos from good companies offer a huge upgrade over factory turbos, and are built to last. A friend of mine had a 2010 WRX (it was a new car on lease back then), and the turbo failed twice within 3 years. It's a common trend to have turbos that grenade themselves long before the engine needs any work, and turbos are such simple devices, they should outlast the car.
 
#12 ·
Mitsubishi and Garrett make fine turbos (or they used to, at least).

I have an 89 Starion engine in an 87 Montero and the engine is fairly bullet-proof. Since it's a cast block with an aluminium head, cooling is always paramount, but the turbo itself has about 100,000 miles on it since I rebuilt it back in about 2004. Very simple to do. I got a kit and, after some pretty furious cleaning to rid the snail shell of all coke and carbon build-up, did the deal sitting on the floor watching TV.

Nothing wrong with a forced induction engine.

I kind of get tickled at Ford with their "Ecoboost," though. I can't figure out why they don't just man up and call it what it is...turbo charged. They market it like it's magic.
 
#13 ·
Yeah turbos are often used on eco cars lately too aren't they. Means they can have tiny weeny engines without being dangerous - at least that's what I'm guessing its for. I hear they only activate in certain gears etc.

I just don't like the power being available in such a blocky way. A good NA motor just doesn't have that. I realise the bi-turbos are sequential to help that. And help the lag problem too. Both those things do absolutely nothing at all for the poise of a car on corners and IMO take a lot more skill to balance.

I love the way MB blended the torque and HP curves on these old V8's - its what makes them what they are, in the driving sense.

Still, technology marches on and they get better all the time.
 
#14 ·
Technology marches on. I'm sure there were people (still are) that absolutely loved steam engines. Now that we're beginning to transition into EVs the pangs of change manifest themselves.

Personally, even though I won't be around, I can't wait...


Very informative video. Apparently Chevy batteries are superior to Tesla batteries... TIL.

In the not too distant future, I can see not only the ability of enthusiasts to mod their cars with all kinds of electric goodies but also -with their powertrain simplicity, improved batteries, and power, a large market to upgrade classics with this technology. No doubt there will be a market for EV conversions of older shells and chassis.

A Porsche 928 of 560SEC with 0-60 under 5 seconds would be amazing.


.



 
#19 ·
Technology marches on. I'm sure there were people (still are) that absolutely loved steam engines. Now that we're beginning to transition into EVs the pangs of change manifest themselves.

Personally, even though I won't be around, I can't wait...







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV2XEz9U4aE
Steam engines? I want a turbine car!


You're going to hate for this question, but would you ever consider doing an EV conversion on any of your W126 models?
 
#15 ·
The Tesla's linear torque sounds far superior to any petrol motor. The kind of thing V8's were good at but can't compete with now. I'd love to try one. My boss is toying with the idea of getting one, so I might get to drive one soon.

Still, currently wouldn't be much use to me. This latest one with the 335 mile range sounds promising, but I don't suppose it would keep that range at higher speeds, heater on etc. Maybe though, and its certainly enough for most people.

Currently my ancient V8 still shows a clear rear end to lots of cheeky new cars - and its that endless pull that does it, you can tell by the way the 'drag races' go - they are working on their turbo, whereas mine just pulls all the way up and just keeps on going.
 
#16 ·
I love the turbodiesel in my truck, but towing is a very different demand than other kinds of driving. Reliability and longevity for a turbo can vary a lot. A lot of turbos on trucks like mine last the life of the vehicle. My Dad's truck still has the original turbo with over 350,000 miles - ironically, a turbo that has a bad reputation. I rebuilt my turbo last summer at 190,000 and put a new billet compressor wheel on, for less than $300. It hadn't failed, but the compressor wheel was getting a little chewed up and I wanted to upgrade it anyway. As with dadrab's rebuild, it was dead simple, but I'm sure they've found ways to complicate it with newer turbos.

Perhaps my biggest objection to turbos is in applications like the Boxster, where it's being used to compensate for a smaller engine. Sure, you can keep the same power level and get better economy (although the savings are often less than advertised), but at the expense of throttle response - a pretty key thing in a sports car. So what do they do? Add compound turbos, hybrid drivetrains, things like that to fill the gaps. And you end up negating any weight advantage, and perhaps worse, complexity necessarily goes through the roof. The more technology you add to the mix, the more you tend to isolate the driver. Some manufacturers do a good job of managing it, but as Top Gear used to be so good at pointing out, you often end up with a car that has to be managed by computers at the limits or it'll exceed the capabilities of 99% of drivers.

It's true that technology marches on, and some things have to be left behind to move forward. Keeping on the bleeding edge is necessary in something like a jet fighter, but it defeats the point of a real driver's car. I think that's part of the reason classic cars and "backdating" (such the Singer Porsche) are so popular these days. Sure, they're not as fast, not as reliable, not as comfortable, but there's nothing to isolate you from the road, no computers second-guessing you. There's something about a truly mechanical device that you can't duplicate digitally. Mercedes was a company that mastered things mechanical, the W126 is one of the last cars built primarily on that approach, and it seems in part that the transition to the digital age is where they lost their way. I'm not sure what direction cars will take in the next fifty years, whether they will be made obsolete or become completely autonomous, but I hope real cars driven by real people don't entirely disappear!
 
#18 ·
Its really clever sometimes, but counter productive perhaps. Our leased people carrier, about a year old now, has a tiny 1.6 litre turbo motor.
Its the same motor as our last one, which was a 5 seater and not a 7 seater. Yet it goes faster, and does better MPG because of its little turbo.

The complexity has gone through the roof though, and imo its clear to see the vehicle won't be around for long. Seriously, we call it the Carship Enterprise. Touch screens and stuff.
The clutch is electronic, its very strange indeed because it does the clutch for you. Its ok to drive considering, once its on the move, but if the sensors get in a tiz it just refuses to go in gear. So far, there have been three times it refused to recognise it was in gear, so it wouldn't go anywhere. Diagnostics find nothing.
The handbook advises that most faults will need the car on a flatbed due to electronic steering, electronic handbrake, blah blah etc.

Glad its not mine. The last vehicle lasted 4 years and needed one headlamp bulb. Much less complex.
This one has incredible MPG, and will cruise at 90 or more pretty calmly, but it'll be in the bin before long so that might negate any benefit really.
In this particular case its really gutless, the turbo isn't intrusive because its probably really small. No lag or other driving characteristics because of the turbo really.

I got an MB driving experience for Xmas. Cannot wait. Don't know what AMG it will be, I wonder if theres any chance it'll be an NA one. Hope so! :)
 
#24 ·
"Electric" is only part of the answer.

Hydrogen is what will change the industry. It's the most abundant element in the known universe and packs as much or more energy as gasoline. The only emission is water.

Use it to power electric motors (rather than batteries) and you've got a winner.

Now for the tech to catch up.
 
#26 ·
I have never in my life bought a brand new car and judging by the way where things are heading, I probably never will and all my future vehicles will probably not be much newer than what is available now. I am not interested in the latest and greatest technology at the expense of my own involvement in maintaining my vehicles.

The stupid AFM (Active Fuel Management) my truck and my wife's Tahoe have is already pushing it. I have it disabled on both, but still...

Sure, EVs and stuff are interesting to me, but mostly just from technological advancement point of view. Not that I'd necessarily want to own one, now or in the future.
 
#27 · (Edited)
My first V/8 car was a 1969 Plymouth Road Runner which I bought new for $3200 and the second was my '79 450SEL and last one is my '84 SEC.
The Plymouth was only the 383 cu in (6.3 L) engine, not the HEMI but was a hell of wild ride with the factory installed Hurst 4/speed shifter and the air induction vents on the hood.

I have to admit I racked up quite a few speeding tickets with that Bird.

Plymouth Road Runner ? Muscle Car Club

Over the past 30 years I've driven hundreds of V/8 Lincolns, Caddys, Mercedes, 7-Series (E38) BMWs and Audi but none give me kick in the butt that the Road Runner did.









On second thought, the SEC comes very, very close.:wink:wink



EDIT: Sorry, forgot one, 1965 Plymouth Belvedere 2dr hardtop with a 318 cu in (5.2 L) V8 and a automatic slush box tranny.
Drove across Canada in it to Vancouver and back in 1967.
 
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#30 ·
Maybe. Have you seen about the noise made by the BMW i8 or whatever it's called?
Fascinating, it makes electronic powering up noise in the cabin just so you've got something to hear when you switch it on. Apparently it growls at pedestrians so they know it's there. (Not sure about that bit.)
And it has speakers fitted in a fake exhaust, which is a brilliant idea. It sounds fantastic.
 
#33 ·
Don't get me started on the fake engine noises that manufacturers are employing these days. "Here, listen to this V-8 soundtrack and try to forget you're driving a three-cylinder hybrid appliance of a car." With regard to electric race cars, I used to be big into NASCAR, and I loved the sound of the cars zooming by. You do lose something if that goes away. Also, it's sad the days of big-time racing based on car you can actually buy and drive on the street are basically gone. I lost interest in NASCAR because the cars had less and less to do with anything real, and they pretty much lost the good-old-boy flavor in their attempt to broaden their appeal.

I'm 33, and I found that by the time I had the means to buy a new car, I didn't have nearly enough interest to justify the cost. If I could pay cash without thinking about it, I probably would buy a new car now and then, but even at that I'd probably buy another used Mercedes or classic Ford first (like a diesel 126, W124 4matic, W113 SL, old T-bird or Galaxie - the list goes on). It just seems new car design is being driven more by government standards and tech toys (look, it syncs with the iphone!) than anything an enthusiast would care for. A far cry from the days when the family sedan had styling inspired by jet fighters and you could order one with the same engine that won the Daytona 500.
 
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