Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

OEM Oil Pump

4K views 46 replies 11 participants last post by  MT_Merc 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey!

So I'm going to replace my oil pump in January, but I keep coming across a Vaico oil pump (even on Autohaus!). I read here that Vaico is kind of iffy, so I'm unsure of whether or not I should stay away from their oil pumps. Does anyone have any experience with these oil pumps?

I was actually just looking more for a used OEM oil pump, but I can't seem to find many of those either (from trusted sellers).
 
#2 ·
No experience with them. The MB pump/chain is what I put in my C126. TBH it didn't really need it, just a new sender, O ring, screen and pickup. For my E500, I only replaced the last part, not the whole pump.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wooky_chew_bacca
#3 ·
I figured it would be better to replace the entire current pump since the car has 321,000 miles on it.

What do you think of putting a used OEM oil pump in there? I found one for $80, but I still need to message the seller about how many miles the engine it came from had.
 
#5 ·
I think if you find a unit that doesn't show wear, looks like it was sitting in new oil all of its life then go for it. Still change out the pickup and screen, the sender O ring is a leak source.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vizezeul
#6 ·
Excellent, I'm linking to those items below so that I can come back to them later.

Oil Sender: http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pr...ts, Seals & Gaskets&gid=5700@Oil Level Sender
Oil Sender O-Ring: http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pr...s & Gaskets&gid=11899@Oil Level Sender O-Ring
Strainer: Mercedes (1973-1995) Engine Oil Pump Strainer LASO + 1 year Warranty | eBay

I can't find a pickup tube, so I'll leave that one alone (or can those be cleaned out?)

Thanks for your help so far. One last thing: How should I inspect an oil pump for wear? The one I'm looking at right now is in the link below.
87 MERCEDES 560SEL W126 OIL PUMP 1171860401 OEM | eBay
 
#7 · (Edited)
These things live in oil and that one looks nice. It's the screen and rubber pick up you need


the PDF is for a 91 SEC, but is interchangeable with previous Gen 2 years

New sender, screen pickup (black rubber piece) about 75 bucks
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: Vizezeul
#8 · (Edited)
also keep in mind to get new MB gasket to seal the pan. If you don't have a 27mm 1/2" socket you may need this to rotate the crank by hand so that you can actually get to the sender. So a full oil change and filter, pan gasket etc. If you are doing the level sender, then do the oil pressure sender too. That has an aluminum crush washer on it, always go new when you are required. leaks happen, especially by reusing crush washers and vulcanized rubber. That pick up shrinks with age so I will see if I can scrounge some pics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vizezeul
#9 ·
Way ahead of you on the pan gasket. :smile

The guy on eBay got back to me about the pump. It came from a 200k mile 560SEL. I'm not sure if it's still worth getting, but if it still appears to be in good condition, then I'll probably get it.

I've dealt with leaks from the transmission pan gasket before, so I know how annoying they can be. I know about the washer leaks as well. I made the mistake of reusing the old washer on my oil pan on my last oil change. I sure won't do that again!

Anyway, thanks for the advice! I'm planning on switching to a lower weight oil when I change out the pump (to 10W-40; I normally use 20W-50) as well. The reason I'm switching out the pump is because of the cold morning lifter noise I've been getting for the past week (The first cold day I started the car up is when it happened). My mechanic listened to it and said it he could here multiple lifters ticking, almost like there isn't enough oil volume being delivered by the pump.
 
#10 ·
I would still do a synthetic blend 20w50 like Brad Penn. You may need a 350 buck chain tensioner from MB, I assume the chain guides have been done, the cam tubes are clean and the oilers have been replaced? If you start the car and get that tap, shut it off and restart it and it should be gone. If you chain slaps too, then I would get new tensioner first.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Actually, I don't have that chain slap problem any more, just that lifter sound (I have the videos comparing the 2 in this post). The chain, tensioner, upper guide rails, and cam oilers are all brand new. I even got the OEM tensioner! :grin I'd be pretty shocked if the chain slapped again this early!

I'll try shutting the car off and starting it up next time the lifter noise comes up. I'll consider the synthetic oil as well.
 
#13 ·
Getting that lifter noise progressive may be some other stuff. If your mechanic did the work, I hope its still under warranty. The tapping that long in what sounds like more than 1 rocker would mean to me historical issue. Potential, is more accurate cuz I cant tell by not seeing it. Might be worth a look see on any debris in the cam tube, did any of the oiler pieces fall into the cam tower and plug the passage, etc. And grooves or scoring of the cam and or rockers? be worth the cost of copper valve cover washers to have a look. May be messy but giving it a look see with the valve cover off as well to see which is getting oil when on a cold start. be careful of moving parts with clothing, hair or anything you erect to keep oil from smattering about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vizezeul
#14 ·
I know this might not even be related to your issue, but one thing ive found thru experience with my higher mileage 420sel, and in tandem with running a thicker 15w-40 syntetic oil is that changing the oil filter 1/2 way thru a oil change helps with my valve train noise. The car is creeping up to 500,000 km, I have one lifter that can get a bit noisy between oil changes, ive been using original mann filters since I have owned the car, and about 1/2 way thru a oil change interval I would start to get some slight start-up tick from one lifter. A filter change has always quieted down, and its cheap insurance especially if you have a filter stockpile :grin
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vizezeul
#15 ·
In W Europe only PAO based motor oils (group 4 = IV) can carry the name / qualify as 'synthetic.'By way of a legal US loophole, highly refined motor oils (group 3) can be sold as 'synthetic' at higher profit margins than PAO based.
The 'extended mileage' remains the only Mobil 1 PAO based (IV) oil, all other Mobil 1 are just highly refined (group 3) oils.
AMSOIL is PAO.

In the old days, mechanics and owners would add a high weight = thicker oil like a 50.


'
 
#20 ·
I'm baffled on that too. I've found my sticky lifter to be just random really, I've been changing oil ahead of schedule and that seems to help, but then again it'll just do it again sometimes to confuse me.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I tried that shut off trick someone in this thread told me about. It worked for about 5 seconds before the noise came back. The tapping noise didn't happen yesterday morning, though it wasn't cold yesterday, so that doesn't surprise me.


Have you ever tried changing out the lifters or the shims?
Have you tried throwing in some ATF before the oil change? ATF is full of solvents and has been known to free sticky lifters. Just don't go out and spend those last couple of hours at the track!
I've tried flushes etc. The first citric flush definitely made a difference to the sticky lifter. I do it periodically now, I still think it does the sticky lifter thing at random really, but less overall perhaps.
I do ATF beforehand too sometimes, did last time instead of flush, drove gently & left it in overnight.
Be aware though that it's not actually proven to benefit, and also I was reading about its composition perhaps not having any more cleaning potential than normal oil anyway.
Some oil people think there are parts of it that could be harmful overall. Just FYI, worth a bit of research. I still did it.
I thought of doing this myself with ATF, but I was told it would do more harm than good (freeing my sludge, causing the sludge to get stuck in something like the cam oilers).

I do wonder if taking off the lower oil pan during the oil change and scraping off anything that may have accumulated on the strainer would help, assuming the strainer has anything on it.
 
#21 ·
its a blasted conspiracy by the jiffy lubes and big oil... save the whales!
 
#23 ·
Before I used ATF I'd try something like AutoRX.

-J
 
#24 ·
I've tried flushes etc. The first citric flush definitely made a difference to the sticky lifter. I do it periodically now, I still think it does the sticky lifter thing at random really, but less overall perhaps.
I do ATF beforehand too sometimes, did last time instead of flush, drove gently & left it in overnight.
Be aware though that it's not actually proven to benefit, and also I was reading about its composition perhaps not having any more cleaning potential than normal oil anyway.
Some oil people think there are parts of it that could be harmful overall. Just FYI, worth a bit of research. I still did it.
 
#27 ·
In my case, the lifters are not budging and specialist decided any more force with a breaker bar may cause damage. A job for one day when I need a head job I guess. I do have a nice set of low mileage spares to go in.

Regarding removing the oil pan, someone on here mentioned doing this and pouring diesel down through the engine. I liked that idea. If I have the oil pan off one day I might do that.

I did put diesel in the oil in my friends old Lister diesel boat engine that I was resurrecting, to use as a flush. It worked a treat, but I don't fancy trying that with the Merc..
 
#29 ·
I did put diesel in the oil in my friends old Lister diesel boat engine that I was resurrecting, to use as a flush. It worked a treat, but I don't fancy trying that with the Merc..
I would think the ratio of diesel to oil would be the critical part, no you wouldn't want to run straight diesel in the pan. Many years ago a friend who is a mechanic said to loosen and flush any built up gunk in the engine by draining the oil, put no more than 2 quarts of diesel and top off with 30wt. He said absolutely no driving it but let it idle until it got to operational temp and run another 30 minutes or so watching the pressure gauge and an occasional blip of the throttle. Drain and do a normal oil and filter change. I too wouldn't want to do this with a Benz but if I did it would be with only 1 quart of diesel. As BigDaddy said, Marvel Mystery oil might do better
 
#28 ·
A few years ago I had this issue with a m117 and added 1-2 quarts of Marvel Mystery oil prior to oil change - ticking went away. I believe I ran the car for about 15 min. with the MMO prior to oil change. I assume the trans fluid method is a similar type of flush.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wooky_chew_bacca
#30 ·
I've used MMO in the past on this car, but it's never helped with anything.

I once got rid of a noisy lifter problem back when I was working on a car for my sister (not a Merc). I poured a can of Seafoam into the crankcase, drove the car 15 miles, and changed the oil. The noise never came back. Of course, I wouldn't do it to my car.
 
#31 ·
If you have the lifter issue then its worn most likely, or the flow of oil out of the cam tower into the plastic oiler (or tube) may be somewhat obstructed. I am afraid you need to remove the valve cover and have a look. You can limit any slinging oil mess by using pieces of cardboard that are tall on either side, but that's what I would do. Look for obvious wear on each lobe and rocker, then have a helper turn it on and see where the oil comes out of the tube and how each lobe lubes up and which rocker(s) are noisy.
 
#32 ·
All right, I've been searching and calling around, but I can't seem to find a decent used OEM oil pump. So you know what? I'm just going to order the Vaico oil pump from Autohaus. I figured since they have a 24 month/24,000 mile warranty, I'll just be the guinea pig and write a review on it for all of you after a year or two.
 
#33 · (Edited)
So today I finally ordered the Vaico oil pump. I called Autohaus for more information on it, and here's what they told me.

  1. While Vaico is a German company, they have manufacturing facilities in numerous countries around the world (one was in Hungary).
  2. Over the past 5 years, a surprisingly large number of people ordered the Vaico pump. The only 5 returns they've received were due to the fact that the buyer simply didn't get the right part number; nothing was wrong with pump.
  3. The pump comes with a pickup, but not the screen, so that needs to be ordered separately (it's only like $12).

My mechanic's parts dealer mentioned something similar about the Vaico oil pump manufacturing locations.

I did find a purported "OEM" pump, though they're fairly expensive and, looking back, they might just be overpriced Vaico pumps.

I figured all of you would appreciate this information.
 
#34 ·
Interesting, I'm not familiar with Vaico. Three and a half years ago I bought a new oil pump that went into my SEC when I went through and rebuilt the top end. I bought a "Febi" oil pump from buyeuroparts.com because Gary clued me in that it's exactly the same pump that Mercedes sells. Sure enough, everything on the pump said "Laso," same as the original. I suspect Laso was the only company making oil pumps for the M117 for quite some time, so I'm curious what's changed here. The Vaico pump could be a re-boxed Laso, could be a completely different manufacturer from Laso/OEM (I think this is least likely), or it could be Laso pulled out and they've taken over.

In my case, I'm not sure the oil pump replacement made much difference. I replaced it because I figured there had to be some wear on the pump, and I wanted a healthy oil supply to my 220K mile bottom end. Maybe there was a difference that was too small to register on the dash, or maybe I missed because I didn't write down any details. Might be worth writing down the before and after, but you'd have to make sure you've duplicated the circumstances for it to be an accurate comparison. An oil temperature gauge and full-range oil pressure gauge would take the guesswork out of it, but if it's enough difference to matter, you should see it on the dash gauge.
 
#35 ·
That's interesting. Yeah, right now it seems like the Vaico pumps have flooded the market. I tried looking on buyeuroparts.com for a 560SEL oil pump for the hell of it, though I was met with the "Sorry - The part you are currently looking for is not stocked" warning.

My current oil pump has 322k miles on it. Right now, I'm only replacing the pump before I replace various parts of the driver side valve train "just in case"a worn oil pump is responsible for any wear on the driver side (there is some wear, but nothing major).
 
#36 ·
The Vaico oil pump came in today. Since I couldn't find much information on the Vaico pumps before this, I thought I'd leave this here for any of you who were curious about them.

It's looks pretty sturdy, though here's something interesting: the areas where the Mercedes logo usually appears have been scratched out (sorry about the blurry last photo).



I've read about some manufacturers doing this before with idle air control valves. From my understanding, this Vaico pump is an "OEM" pump, though Vaico removes the Mercedes logos for... Some reason. I think it has something to do with repackaging the part.

Anyway, the pump also comes with a pickup and screen. The guy over at Autohaus told me it didn't, but no worries there; I'll just keep the other as a spare.
 
#37 ·
having not read things today earlier, are you changing the oil level sender on the O rings too along with the chain for the pump?
 
#38 ·
No, I decided to forego replacing the oil level sender and the pump chain. I did, however, order a new oil pan as my current pan has a bit of rust at the bottom (possibly from being scraped in the past; it's the only part of the car that has any rust).
 
#39 ·
but here is my deal, and it is a while you are in there. At least spend the 3 bucks to replace the O rings, the source of the leak since the level is above the Sensor. The part is not going to last for ever and for 60 or so, you can replace the whole unit, and the pan is off and drained so why do it all over again in a year or so? Just thinking that at a minimum, change out the O rings, wont help a level sensor failure but it will prevent leaks. Imagine, a German car that leaks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: liviu165
#40 ·
At the moment, my goal is to just work on anything that could cause catastrophic engine failure (not necessarily the oil pump in this case; I'm just replacing that before I replace various parts of my driver side valve train). I check my oil level via the dipstick every weekend and my car doesn't eat up the oil, so I figured the oil level sender is a low priority item.

On the other hand, I get what you're saying about the leaks. My car doesn't currently leak oil (or anything else for that matter), though I can get the o-rings from a local parts dealer around here tomorrow.

In a couple of years (or 1 year, depending on my income), I was actually planning on having my mechanic replace the lower guide rails along with many other hard-to-reach parts of the engine while the engine is out and the timing cover is off, so replacing the oil level sender wouldn't be much of an inconvenience.
 
#41 ·
Cool, thanks for the update! It would appear that Vaico is the new OEM then. They're not going to make two different moulds, but they can't sell the pump with MB markings, hence the scratched-out markings. I can't quite tell from the last picture, does it actually say Vaico on it? Also, I think I see "Made in Germany" - is that correct?

I replaced the oil level sender on mine because I had a problem with the low oil light coming on, but only in warm weather and on long drives. Never done it since. One other thing I just thought of, see if you can pour some oil in the outlet of the pump just before you put it on. I had a deuce of a time getting mine to pump oil initially (this was cranking with the starter motor), I think I ended up taking the filter housing off and cranking it over until it spit some oil out. Not sure if there's a better way, and maybe I was just paranoid not wanting to start it up until I knew I'd get oil pressure, but that little bit of oil wouldn't hurt either way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vizezeul
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top