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Been a while since a headlight thread - how about LEDs?

4K views 38 replies 15 participants last post by  Josh 
#1 ·
So, I've noticed Ingrid's lights are a bit dimmer and significantly more yellow than Liesl's, and been thinking about what bulb to use. Both have euro headlights; Ingrid has standard Osram bulbs, while Liesl has Wal-Mart sourced Silverstars - they've lasted over five years and 30,000 miles of pretty typical usage, which seems excellent since the biggest complaint about them seems to be bulb life.

I was doing some looking on Amazon, and a set of Silverstars or high performance Osrams is about $20 and a straightforward upgrade. But I also notice a wide selection of LED conversion bulbs, such as this one: https://amzn.com/B01JQV8R1W. One obvious problem is that they have a heat-sink that sticks back about 1.5". The biggest question is whether the LED replacements replicate the beam pattern of a typical H4 halogen. There was a thread a while back talking about xenon bulbs, and there seemed to be legitimate issues caused by the placement and the shape of the filament on HID conversion bulbs. Would LED replacements have the same issue? Anyone try this yet? I'm definitely not sold on the idea, and if I lost the tight low beam pattern of the euros I'd switch back, but I am tempted to experiment...
 
#2 ·
Don't waste your money, as they're not set up to properly utilize the reflector and lenses in your headlights.

The best thing you can do and the most bang for your buck you'll ever get with a set of Euro headlights is to set up relays with larger gauge wire and a connection direct to the power source. It's been done for years and works amazingly well. By doing this you can get 100/135W lamps in your Euros and melt the bumper on that beat up Ford Explorer sitting in front of you at the stop light.

Read this:

Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

Dan also addresses "conversions" such as the one you propose and why they won't work, or work well.

I've done numerous relay conversions on both MBs and domestic cars, and even with the crappy stock lamps output was noticeably increased.

Dan
 
#3 ·
I've done numerous relay conversions on both MBs and domestic cars, and even with the crappy stock lamps output was noticeably increased.

Dan
As have I and I agree with you 110%. From a pure safety standpoint I feel it is the most effective and important upgrade I have done. While my setup (individual Hella H4s and H1s) is a bit different than yours all the same benefits apply. With higher wattage bulbs, thicker gauge wiring and increased voltage to the headlights you light up the night. It is also well within the skill level of the average home mechanic. Like you mentioned it's proven technology and basically a win-win situation. There are zero drawbacks.
 
#4 ·
Well, I understand the skepticism, but I'm not convinced that nothing but good 'ol halogen bulbs will ever work properly. LEDs are a different animal, I get that, but who's to say you can't replicate the beam pattern of a halogen? I think it's a mistake to put LED conversions in the same basket as HID conversions. HIDs are more problematic by their nature - as I understand it, you can't really adjust the size/shape of the bulb to fit the reflector. LEDs are a lot more versatile though, plus you've got the benefit of more output, plus lower power draw makes relays unnecessary. So it's not a simple thing, it takes proper design and know-how, but I see no reason it's impossible. Ultimately, an H4 bulb is an H4 bulb - if you can make an LED bulb mimic the output of a halogen bulb, it'll function the same in any headlight designed for a H4. Looking through the reviews of the bulb I linked to, no one complained about the beam pattern. There's nothing magic about the reflector in our headlights - if anything, it's simpler than most. I'm still tempted to try it.
 
#5 ·
Try it and report back ! Amazon return policy is hassle free

They also have the tunnkit h4 without the large fan on the back of the light - they use aluminum heat sink mesh that flexes

There are a variety of led conversions , and the light pattern is a bit different on each
 
#6 ·
MT_Merc those lights would be great if they work. To add to this thread I also want to add LEDs to the instrument cluster. On mercedessource they sell LED light kits. They state that these are direct replacements but have to be installed a certain way to work properly. How do you properly install the bulbs in the bulb holders and modify the bulbs to reduce maximum light intensity. What type of bulbs are recommended, warm or bright white, wattage. I've seen these type of bulbs at Autozone, but I'm sure Amazon will have them. Has anyone done this mod, thanks.
 
#7 ·
macdeity - I have started to replace interior lights with LED, including the instruments and turn signals. Unlike normal light bulbs which you can install in any way, the LED's only work in one way. So, if it doesn't work, you just switch it around.

The two things I like with the LED is the amount of light, and the lack of heat. The older types' heat is not very nice to plastic.

I have used https://www.superbrightleds.com/ since they have a tool to match the different light bulbs to your model. I have not replaced any of the outside lights, except the back license plate lights.

Hope this helps!
 
#8 ·
Superbrightleds sells non-polarized LEDs, so you don't have to worry about which terminal is pos/neg.

I thought about trying their H4 set, just to see what it does, but I may opt for foglights instead, and then return if I don't like it.

I've read Daniel Stern's webpage many times, and while he makes valid points, humans are adaptable creatures and will find ways to make things work more effectively even when told it couldn't possibly be improved any further.

Hell, we got to the moon only 8 years after we set the goal to do so.

I should also note that I went with cool-white LEDs, and the light transfer from them to all of the switches via the fiber optic is perfect. Now that LEDs are being made with a 360* light angle, the light goes everywhere.

The only switch that still retains the incandescent light color is my AC switch, because it has internal LEDs, and I haven't taken it apart to remove and solder in new ones.

For those who wish to solder in LEDs, I made a thread on it a long while back.

I used these for behind my dials and the center light that transmits the light to the switches and the shifter: https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...b-3-smd-led-miniature-wedge-retrofit-car/228/

I used two of these behind my cluster: https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...d-led-tower-miniature-wedge-retrofit-car/206/

I've also upgraded my brake and running lights in the rear to LEDs and they are much brighter, making it easier for people to see me.

Headlights are the only thing where I won't trust LEDs just yet for fulltime road usage.
 
#10 ·
I'm thinking I'll give the LEDs a try, if only to be a warning for generations to come! On the topic of the beam pattern, I spent some time on JDM astar's website, and the ones I linked to are a fairly early design. Their "8th-gen" LEDs are further developed to match the filament of a H4: JDM ASTAR Auto LED Bulbs,LED Headlight,Fog Lamps & Turn Signal Brake Tail Light. They're a little pricey for "just experimenting," but they use 16 LED elements arranged to match the size and placement of a standard H4 filament. There are probably other companies worth considering, but it seems that JDM is perhaps the best choice for LED bulbs, and they cover all kinds of applications - headlights, turn/brake signals, dash lights, etc.

One the question of instrument lights, dash lights, reading lights, etc. there have been a couple threads on using LED bulbs. The most immediate problem is that LEDs don't dim the same as incandescents. Most LEDs will be too bright, and while the dimmer will have some effect, you won't be able to get them to match without some extra work. What's needed there is a PWM (pulse width modulation - basically it cycles the power at a high frequency instead of reducing voltage) dimmer, such as this one: https://amzn.com/B000N8GIYG. The recommended way to install those is to hook it up to the rest of the dash lights, adjust the LEDs down to where you need them, and then put it somewhere out of the way. It's kind of a pain, but better than blinding yourself at night! You could also mount such a dimmer independently, if desired. My personal opinion is that I prefer the soft effect of the original dash lights, and it's not worth the effort to try and match that with LEDs. Also, I find PWM dimmers cause a noticeable flicker when I move my eyes quickly. YMMV; sometimes you just have to play around and see what you like.
 
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#11 ·
Went with LED H4 headlights on my 300CD. Using Depot light housing. Found that the LED's with cooling fans attached to bulb did not work well. Used this style with flexible heatsink ribbons. They also came with an adapter plate that twisted into the H4 socket. This allows you to remove the LEDS if not "hard glued into socket" I liked the light out put so much I JB Welded them in. Also went to WalMart and got 4 bright strips of LED lights, hooked them up to a $12 DRL relay off of Ebay. Turn on when motor starts, and off about 45 seconds after motor is turned off. Nice having light to get out of shop after parking.:grin

Only problem so far is that the LED lights do not put out any heat, they will let the headlights build up with snow/ice if driving in bad weather. I try not to drive the MB in bad weather, so not a problem for me. Really like the "clean" ligh that the LED's put out. Really light up traffic signs/reflecter poles. Running same set up on my 84 280SL now. It does not see any bad weather driving.

Pic #1 & #2: DRL LED strips, and controller
Pic #3 H4 LEd hi/lo beams that I used
Pic #4 LEDS headlights on
Pic #5 Passenger headlight LED, Drivers halogen H4, note the "brighter/Cleaner light"
 

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#14 ·
I hadn't thought about the heat question, although many W126s are blessed with the tiny windshield wiper that keeps the headlight clean in a raaaainstoooorm. But then, the heat from the bulb only does so much; I drove my truck through a mix of sleet and snow, and it built up over half the headlight before I stopped. Those headlight wipers are pretty much for show 99% of the time, but if you're fool enough to drive your prized Mercedes in the snow they can be a life-saver.

I've also thought about the DRL idea. My plan there would be to use the small marker bulb the euro headlights have with an LED, but I figure I'll play with the main bulb first. The "8th gen" JDM H4s have a solid heat-sink, which could be an issue for fitment, but no fan to worry about. Their "6th gen" version has a braided heat-sink similar to yours, but a more simplistic element arrangement that probably won't give as good a beam pattern. I did a little measuring between the base of the mount and the access door for the bulb, and it's actually close to enough clearance for the solid heat-sink. It'll definitely fit with some modification to the cover and/or heat-sink, but I won't even consider going there unless the bulb absolutely blows me away and whitens my teeth while I sleep. I plan to order a set soon, hopefully have more to contribute next week!
 
#16 ·
The Truck-Lite 27450C is a drop-in replacement for the H6054 of US W126 models. I use their 27270C lights in my 300D and the difference over even the good halogens is well worth the cost.
 
#20 ·
How about you two activate your brain instead of brushing off a vastly superior product with "look at the stupid price I found without doing any amount of shopping around, LOL".
Truck-lite is proud of their 3 year no hassle warranty. Try finding warranty information on Sylvania's silverstar junk (You won't, but if you call them you'll find its only 1 year IF you have the original receipt).

They don't just warranty it for if it breaks (manufacturing defects), "Truck-Lite believes our products should provide good service under proper operating conditions."
I have bought 3 of them, two for my car on one for my bike. One was slightly dimmer than the other three and they sent me a new one only asking over e-mail when and where I bought it, paid shipping both ways.
 
#22 ·
You're fooling yourself if you think you can get a well made DOT certified LED headlight for less than $100 each. The technology is still too new.

As well, the one you listed is off-road only.
"Application:
Off-Road Vehicles, forklifts, tractors, trucks, engine ATV's, Heavy Duties, Etc."
 
#23 ·
The JDM bulbs have arrived! I ordered them Monday off their website via standard shipping and they were in the mail today. They’re pretty well packaged, and they have a quality look and feel to them. Not Swiss watch quality, but pretty good for headlights. As you can see, the backspacing for the heat sink is around 1-3/4”, or 1-1/2" if you reverse the heat sink. I put one in and found that I could fit everything (including the power supply) with ease behind the bulb cover.

As for performance, those LEDs a bright! I plugged one in out of the headlight just to see what it looks like, and it’s like looking at four elements from one of those nice Surefire flashlights. It’s also much brighter and whiter than the H4 bulb. I should note that it’s not a totally fair comparison because the car wasn’t running. I think the power supply for the LEDs compensates for voltage, so the output doesn’t change with the extra alternator voltage while the H4 will get brighter. The beam pattern doesn’t look bad, but it’s hard to tell until I find a good wall to shine it against. I did take one picture just above the cutout and one just below at the same exposure, and at least from that it doesn’t look like it’s throwing significantly more light above the cutoff than the halogen bulb - just looks brighter because it's, you know, brighter.

One big positive is that the color is a cool white, much like xenon bulbs. I wouldn't say it looks blueish, but I will say I wouldn’t want it any cooler. I’ll have to drive it some before I can offer a verdict on the color, but I’ll definitely take it over a standard halogen.

So far everything looks great. But there is a problem. Maybe. I called the company before I ordered to ask some questions about fitment and heat dissipation. Obviously the fitment question is not an issue. The person I talked to seemed a little concerned about heat though, that being inside the enclosure might shorten the life. He couldn’t say for sure either way, just that there's a possibility of the bulbs getting too hot with the heat sink fully enclosed. What I’m thinking I’ll do is get a non-contact thermometer (I should have bought one by now anyway) and just see how hot it gets with the covers on versus off. If it builds up a lot of heat in there I may have to get creative; if it’s close, then it’s probably ok. It isn’t a tight enclosure, plus the bulb is throwing off half the heat of the halogen (although a fair amount of that is reflected out of the headlight), so we'll see.

So, I’ll report back with more pictures when I get a chance. One plus on these is that you can rotate the bulb to give some adjustment to the beam pattern. I'll definitely play with that, see what it does, whether I can get a perfect pattern, and how close to optimum the original setting is. I'd never noticed it before, but a H4 halogen bulb doesn't run straight up and down, if you look at the reflector in the bulb it's canted around ten degrees or so. I'm assuming that's part of what gives the up-angle on the right side. No verdict yet, but I will say I'm liking what I see so far and hoping they work out!
 

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#26 ·
Looks good! Let me know how they perform.

As for those who continue to harp on blinding other drivers, I used to be one of those people who cared.

However, with the advent of projectors and the fact that they are put into EVERY new vehicle now, I find myself blinded constantly by even their LOW beams; it seems no manufacturer in this nation knows how to aim lights anymore.

Hell, even the local PD, SD, and Constables have fancy new cars with projectors and they blind me when oncoming.

I know what you're thinking, it's the high-riding trucks, SUVs, and Crossovers everyone loves so much!! WRONG! It's sedans too!
 
#27 ·
Looks good! Let me know how they perform.

As for those who continue to harp on blinding other drivers, I used to be one of those people who cared.
Oh dear... My biggest worry with blinding other people is that they will dump their car into mine. After that, general loss of life and limb - anyones.

Are things as bad as that there now? Thankfully we have the annual safety test and the car will fail if outside spec. However, new cars don't need one until 3 years old. And MB are very bad at sending out cars with dangerously aimed lights it would seem. It'll be three years before its going to fail the test.
 

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#28 ·
Just to be clear, both pictures are low beams. The first picture is just above the cutout to give you some idea what an oncoming driver would see. It's brighter, yes, but as best I can tell so far it's because of overall brightness and not beam pattern. As mentioned, the halogen would be brighter with the engine running (13ish volts at the bulb vs. 11ish). The second picture is at the same exposure, but just below knee height to compare the light output where the beam is actually going. As I also mentioned, there is an adjustment in the angle of the bulb that may need to be tweaked. You'll always get more scatter with a brighter bulb no matter the type or how tight the beam pattern is - an 80W halogen bulb on low beam is going to throw more light at oncoming drivers than an otherwise identical 55W.

Like I said, I've still got some tweaking to do, but based on what I'm seeing I don't think I'll be blinding anyone. I'd be willing to bet that on low beam I'll easily be throwing less light upward than a typical 9004 headlight (they're actually spec'd to throw some light upward in the name of lighting road signs), and only marginally more than a standard H4 bulb. I won't run them otherwise, and overall I'm just trying to give a fair representation of what an LED bulb can do. As I said, more to come; feel free to take away whatever conclusions you want once I've finished evaluating them.
 
#29 ·
Results appear to be a bit better than I initially expected. Heat dissipation has always been a concern with LEDs, known to shorten their life. Hope is not the case here. However, at the end of the day I am not convinced that the $120 spent are worth the additional amount of whitish light on the asphalt. Maybe for the ones doing a lot of night time driving it is.
 
#31 ·
No offense taken. There is a fair amount of resistance to aftermarket and conversion bulbs, here and throughout much of the automotive community. It's understandable, especially thinking back to the crummy high-watt blue headlight bulbs that were the rage with the import tuner community, and I don't want anyone to think I'm fine with blinding other drivers or just doing it "because it looks cool."

Results appear to be a bit better than I initially expected. Heat dissipation has always been a concern with LEDs, known to shorten their life. Hope is not the case here. However, at the end of the day I am not convinced that the $120 spent are worth the additional amount of whitish light on the asphalt. Maybe for the ones doing a lot of night time driving it is.
After years of good luck, one of my cars was the victim of the teeming suicidal deer population. It tends to be pretty bad here: my Dad has hit five in the last twenty years, and that's not counting two that have run headlong into the side of his car. So that's most of what drives my interest in the lighting department. Anything you can do to get more light will help, in particular with the low beams. I'm generally happy with Silverstar H4s on high, but on low I always feel like I need to slow down 20 MPH. It's not just the lower beam - they don't light up the sides very well either. As for the heat issue, I'm still not sure. I ran around with the headlights on for 15 minutes or so yesterday, and the heat sink was fairly hot. Not burning hot, but hot enough that you couldn't hold onto it. As I mentioned I'm going to get ahold of an IR thermometer and see how hot they actually are. If they do get unacceptably hot with the bulb cover on, then I'll have to start brainstorming a solution - one that doesn't involve drilling holes in my precious H4 headlights, obviously.
 
#35 · (Edited)
All focking off aside, if you are not within the rules of the land, you will get busted either by the police or by parking your POS ricer in the parking lot and a stiff kick in the lens will fix that. I don't get all the hype about it, but I also don't understand a whaletale on a front wheel drive Honda....as if Rear Wheel Torque is lost without it. WTF. Close this down or the 6 people left will stop coming.....
 
#36 ·
I've now had a chance to get out and drive it, and get some pictures that should give a good idea of the pros and cons of this particular conversion. Be aware that other LED bulbs may give vastly different results.

The first three pictures are at the same exposure settings and should give a pretty accurate representation of the difference in light output.
Picture one is a standard H4 halogen bulb.
Two is one LED bulb.
Three is is both headlights with LEDs.
Four is LEDs on low beam.
Five is LEDs on high beam.

I plan to take more pictures down the road when I feel I've got them as well dialed in as I can get, but for now you can probably see the big pro, and a con to this conversion vis a vi the light output. There is obviously more light from the LEDs. In case you're wondering, this is with the engine running. It would be interesting to see how much more wattage you'd need from a halogen bulb to match the LEDs. The con is that, unfortunately, the LED doesn't maintain quite as tight a beam pattern. It's not a disqualifying offense - you can clearly see that there's no significant scattering in the direction of oncoming drivers' eyes - but it would have been nice to maintain the crisp cutoff.

So you may have to aim them a bit lower. Then again, if you have a perfect cutoff and you get carried away trying to make it perfectly level, you'll end up flashing oncoming traffic every time you hit a bump. I think that's the problem VaiFanatic is getting at with projectors and such - the even cutoff is nice, but it encourages aiming them too high. I noticed in my Dad's Fusion that if you put a couple people in the back seat, you're close to if not slightly above level. It's a 2014, and the headlight adjustment is as as it came from the factory. That's the nice thing about the euro level adjustors though. You can set the basic setting to nearly level for flat, even roads. Then, if it's bumpy or hilly, you can adjust accordingly. I've got the adjusters working perfectly on Liesl, but don't have all the pieces for Ingrid. The hardest part, I've found, is getting a Gen II euro headlight switch bezel. I could really use something like that in my truck too: you can imagine what a full load in the bed or hooking up a trailer does...

My feeling so far is that overall it's an improvement. It lights up the road very nicely - both high and low beams are a significant improvement. For now, I'm going to drive it, keep fiddling with the adjustment, and see how I feel about it. I've got an IR thermometer on order so I can figure out if the heat question is a problem or not; stand by on that. I also went ahead and ordered a pair of Osram Nightbreaker bulbs, which seems to be about the best halogen bulb upgrade without getting into higher wattage. After I've acclimated to the LEDs, I'll swap to them and see what I think.
 

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#37 ·
Looks great! If you were concerned about spread over into oncoming traffic, you can adjust them left to right as well.

Judging from the photos, however, it looks like they still kept the beam pattern rather well; better than I expected!

At this point, you could try Daniel Stern's method for aiming the headlights, assuming you have the flat and lengthy driveway to accomplish this.

How well do you find the light reflects off road signs and markers and the like? I always like when the center stripe markers are more vibrant and visible.
 
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