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Repair of 560SEL AC runaround ... What would you do?

4K views 25 replies 12 participants last post by  ianrandom 
#1 ·
Two years ago, I brought my 1990 560SEL in to MB service for repair of the AC. After a few weeks, back and forth, they concluded that the car needed a new compressor. The charge was $2100 for the compressor and related valves. The AC worked fine for the remaining two to three months of the summer, but by the next spring the AC was failing again. I brought the car back and was told that since it certainly wasn't the compressor, they'd have to look elsewhere. Again they added dye and re-charged the coolant. (PS I had paid to have the car converted to the new coolant the prior year.) They said that the coolant would work for a while and when and if the AC started failing again to bring it back. In fact, the AC worked fine, again for the remaining months of the summer. But here we are two years later and the AC is failing. I brought it back, and they've now concluded that it is the compressor and will charge me $1700 to replace it. When I asked about the two-year old compressor having failed and that I shouldn't have to pay for it again, they said there was only a one-year warranty. I argued that since they are now 'absolutely certain' that the compressor is to blame, then it follows that a year earlier while the compressor was under warranty, it was to blame then and should have been replaced. That logic failed them. So, I am faced with taking my car back unrepaired and maybe suffering with less than an ideal AC (it actually cools, just not 100%) or paying the $1700 and feeling I've been made a fool of.

I bet if you live in New Jersey you can guess exactly which MB dealership this is.
 
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#2 ·
I was given this *exact* story on my 560SEL. Turns out the two o-rings on the high pressure side of the connection block on top of the compressor were bad. I put in two on the high side, two fresh ones on the low side, and two more on the refrigerant lines that connect to that block. Maybe $5.00 worth of parts. That was in 2003. Still works great.

If your compressor is quiet, this could be a DIY repair, then someone can recharge it.
 
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#3 ·
I would suggest going to a local auto-parts store and buying an A/C recharge kit and shoot some new R134 into the system. Maybe the system has a small leak and needs recharged. The complete large canister of gas including the hose and gauge should be less than $40 tops. Takes about 5-10 minutes to complete the process. Compressors do not usually fail in 2 years and as you said the dealer recharged it last year. Simple and effective solution if your lucky.
 
#4 ·
I agree with this, just did it myself. 42.39 with tax here in the Republic of Texas. Blowing icicles now, I think 134a just needs more recharge than did our old R12. Please, this is not a thread on which is better..... :D
 
#23 ·
I am having the same issues! Put a new AC system in $2500 a little over a year later AC not working. Took it back and was told compressor bad and it was out of warranty. They did talk the company into springing for the replacement compressor but I had to pay over $400 labor. That was in early august. Now it is mid May and AC does not work. I was told is was a low side charge port that was leaking and it had nothing to do with the compressor. The part was $12 and Freon $37 and labor $250! This is crazy! In addition they said there was airflow problems in the vents and estimate to fix that was $2000. I think I am in the wrong business! You are pretty much stuck doing business in Fayetteville Ar with these people cause no one else works on the Mercedes’. Probably going to sell the car to someone who can afford to maintain it like it needs or that can work on it themselves.
 
#5 ·
Wanted to add a FYI. My indie and I were discussing the difference in original R12 and R134a just the other day. He mentioned that on the older cars that he has converted to R134a that he wires the aux fan to come on continuously whenever the compressor (or AC) is activated. This creates a scenario where the AC is not playing "catch-up" and cools at its maximum from the beginning. I'm not aware if this method has been discussed before but makes sense to me.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Thanks, guys! I have decided that I will wait until Monday for the service manager and senior repair guy to call me back with their reaction to my logic of "if it's the only problem now, then it was the only problem then." If their offer isn't acceptable or they stonewall completely, then I'll just take my car and leave. I'm not the least handy with cars, in fact the prospect of doing anything more technical than adding oil to the Benz frightens me. I'll probably be asking the local service station to handle it for me starting with a simple recharge of the coolant (although the odds may be in my favor that the dealership did that already to test the system.)

Maybe you guys can reassure me about how easy and fool-proof this is and I'll attempt it. Or better yet walk me through exactly what to do. Much appreciated.
 
#7 ·
I am like you - I won't do anything more complex than add oil

But I recharged my AC using store bought cans. (Actually bought online from enviro safe which is colder than r134)

Buy the nice large can with the hose and dial on it. Hopefully someone here can post pics where to hook it up . It's a quick release push on connector . Simply turn the can upside down and squeeze the trigger , while the car is on and AC is running . 5 minutes and you're finished if you're just doing one can (since you aren't empty ). I took 15 minutes to add three cans plus a can of stop leak .

Wear thick gloves as the can gets freezing cold and uncomfortable to hold . You can do it easily if the service advisor will not accommodate you or do a cheap recharge for you
 
#9 ·
You can get an AC gauge set for less than $100, which is the ideal thing for topping off the system. You can find plenty of guidelines on charging the system with a search, and once you understand what you're doing it's almost as simple as adding oil. If you're replacing seals or components, the next step is a vacuum pump for around $100, although this may be more involved than you're interested in getting. Another option for charging the system is a can tap for around $15. R134 is dirt cheap if you have a can tap (either with gauges or just the tap that hooks straight to the low-side port), I picked up three 12oz cans from Wally world for $4.88 each. R12 used to be just a cheap and accessible - thanks EPA! The biggest thing with charging R134 - especially without a proper gauge set - is DO NOT OVERCHARGE! If a little is good, stop there: one of the best ways to kill a compressor is to overcharge.

I recently discovered on a trip back home that the AC on Ingrid had leaked down. So I acquired a vacuum pump, new receiver/drier, some ester oil and UV dye. I replaced all the o-rings I could get to, cleaned everything up, and put it all back together. I drew a vacuum, put in 8oz oil, vacuumed again, and started charging. Now, I don't have my gauges here, so I only put two cans in (I'll top it off when I can get to it). Even at that, it cools fairly well; it's supposed to be hot here today, so I'll see how it handles that. AC work really isn't that big a deal - it's well worth it for a shade-tree mechanic to invest in the tools. For those who choose not to work on it, for whatever reason, a good independent shop is the way to go (although I realize finding a good one can be easier said than done).
 
#10 ·
I am faced with taking my car back unrepaired and maybe suffering with less than an ideal AC (it actually cools, just not 100%) or paying the $1700 and feeling I've been made a fool of.

I bet if you live in New Jersey you can guess exactly which MB dealership this is.
First of all, I will bet donuts to dollars that you'll not be covered in any shape or form by the service organization you took it to. I was in the service business for over 20 years, and if I gave every customer who came back after two years warranty on their stuff I would have gone out of business.

That being said, I'm willing to bet these guys just haven't done a good job troubleshooting the system.

If your car is cooling partially, the compressor is still working. Compressors either work or they don't. Granted, you probably have a leak somewhere or are just low on refrigerant.

You also have to accept the fact that an R12 system converted to R134a will never cool as well or be as efficient - the laws of physics are against you.

Also, the hoses in your car are probably the original ones, meaning that the R134a will actually leak out of them at the molecular level. Systems designed for R134a have barrier hoses that actually have a barrier molded into the hose material that prevents such leakage.

I concur with the others, that you might as well grab a can of refrigerant from your local FLAPS (friendly neighborhood auto parts store) and drop it in. It's pretty straightforward and easy to do. If you get more cold out of the system then you can almost bet you've got a leak or the system is just leaking down over the off season.

As for service providers, I would find another, or go to a automotive AC shop for this kind of work, and to your general mechanic.

Dan
 
#11 ·
They agreed to charge me $725, which I felt was a reasonable concession. It prevents me from doing anything myself, supposedly corrects and warranties the repair (for 4 years this time) and it keeps me on a good footing with the dealership in case I need them for other repairs.
 
#12 ·
OK, for yet another twist. After paying the $725 plus/plus, the AC started blowing warm air again in a matter of days. I brought it back and the next day my service rep said they had found the problem: the evap system (whatever that is); all the green dye was in there. In my opinion it probably never was any of the three compressors the car has had in the last three years --- I spent $3000 for that for nothing! To repair the new problem it is $3500 in labor and $1500 in parts. That'll be a total of $8K --- and I feel I'm at their mercy.
 
#17 ·
First, you really have no recourse against the mechanic. Unfortunately, they totally pooched the diagnosis, without question. That being said, they did the work you paid them for, so you haven't been harmed in the sense that they ripped you off - you paid for compressor replacements, they replaced the compressor. Sadly, incompetence that doesn't end up in some sort of damage probably can't be successfully litigated.

Second, ditch these guys. Find a competent auto AC guy or a fellow DIY friend close by. Then buy a can of Cliplight AC sealer and follow the directions to the letter.

Cliplight - Super Seal Premium - The Classic Automotive A/C Leak Sealant

I have used this successfully to seal leaks in the dreaded W140 evaporator and I have a friend who has used it in W124 evaporators as well.

As long as you can hold a vacuum for the specified period of time, and it's not long, maybe minutes, the car is a candidate for use.

Both of us who have used this have not had a problem since. His car was done almost six years ago, mine about two. We both live in west central Florida, where AC is an absolute necessity about eight months out of the year.

The stuff works famously and the company is great at answering questions if you have them. I keep a can on the shelf for insurance, just in case any of my cars ever spring a leak.

Good luck!

Dan
 
#18 ·
OP here: I think the operative phrase over the last 3 years was "and we're sure that's the ONLY problem." When, in effect, it probably wasn't even THE problem. Maybe not legally, but morally, they should do something for me. Yes, this will be the last time with them unless they can make this right somehow. I've tried other nearby techies for issues not AC, and they either gave up or screwed up something else. It's just a combination of being a complete novice at car repairs and having very bad luck. PS: If I could trade my house repair talents for car services, I'd be golden.
 
#19 ·
I would agree, but unless you have unlimited funds and a fair amount of time, I doubt you would prevail in court on this. And that's if they put that in writing, too, which I suspect they didn't.

Again, from my experience, as a consumer and former shop service manager, you don't really have much chance of recovery. They did the work they said they did, and while it may have been wrong or an incorrect diagnosis, courts will look at it for the standpoint of whether or not you were scammed in the sense that you didn't get what you paid for.

If I was them in this situation I would turn you away at this point. There's nothing to be gained by doing any more work for you, as no matter what you're not coming back. It's a lose-lose no matter what, so in this case if I were them I would walk away.

That being said, you have nothing to lose by asking for some sort of relief if you want to try and recover something out of the deal. This is a really labor intensive job, so consider asking them to provide the labor for free and you'll pay for the parts. That would cut the cost down significantly and give them an out, if they're willing to consider one.

Another alternative is to do the above and hint that you'll be going to the state AG's office of Consumer Affairs if you can't get some satisfaction.

You really have nothing to lose at this point.

Dan
 
#20 ·
I use to have my own biz before I gave up working. 25 years. If I screwed up or my staff screwed up I always made it right . It always cost. But I slept easy. Mind you I never made a lot of money, just a decent income. If only others could do the same.
 
#21 ·
I'd try the clip light fix mentioned above

I woukd dispute the $725 charge with my cc company

It's outrageous they didn't even offer to drastically discount the evap repair - even if not free labor they should have drastically discounted the labor

This is not a place you should ever take your car as they have no goodwill towards you
 
#24 ·
I learned a long time ago never to go to the dealer. Now, they don't even have master mechanics, just kids who can only read the computer. Give me an old time, hands on, old geezer (like me) any time. Look around, they are still out there.
 
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#25 ·
SaraJ ... it's been 6 years and I'm almost over it. I haven't been back to the dealership since, not even to get the free oil change they offered me in compensation for screwing me out of $8000. My local mechanic can handle most of the day-to-day on the Benz, and luckily that's all I've needed lately. Now that the car is 32 years old, I repair what I can and suffer with what I can't. I still love the ride, and the car still raises eyebrows with its beauty.
 
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