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'89 300D 5spd into E320 - is 300D clutch ok?

9K views 32 replies 8 participants last post by  tjts1 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi,

I'm new to the forum and live in New Zealand where my current drive is a '95 E320 (124.092).

I have the opportunity to purchase a very tidy 1989 300D (124.130) non turbo 5 speed with new clutch and master cylinder. I intend to do a tranny swap with my 1995 E320 4 speed auto (or perhaps a W124 320 coupe if I can find a tidy one with a shot tranny as there is nothing wrong with the tranny in my car).

From what I have read (hours of web search....) I believe that the 300D runs an OM603.912 coupled to a 717.430 (single mass?) while the 320TE (or W124 320 coupe) run an M104/722.359 auto or 717.450 (dual mass) manual.

My understanding is that the 717.430 is a single mass fly wheel box which is what I want and that it should drop straight into any of the straight six W124s. I not sure if the standard 300D clutch is suitable or if I'd need to replace it (given the extra power of the 320). If 300D clutch is not suitable I won't proceed due to extra cost.

Also - will the 717.450 box from my E320 fit into the 300D?

From the ratios and final drives shown on the 3 web pages below it looks like the swap is a match made in heaven - as long as the 300D clutch is ok behind the M104 engine!
http://wiki.mercedes-benz-classic.com/index.php/W124-300D-Getriebe/en
http://wiki.mercedes-benz-classic.com/index.php/W124-320TEK-2-Getriebe/en
http://wiki.mercedes-benz-classic.com/index.php/W124-E320Cabrio-3-Getriebe/en


My E320 could do with longer legs - the current 4 speed auto in my E320 has a final drive ratio of 3.06:1, the 300D box should give it a final drive ratio of closer to 3.5:1 - I'm excited!5 speed into a R129 runnng a 104 engine? Would that work? An SL320 with generous overdrive might be nice?

Here's another idea - what about putting the 300D box in a R129 running an M104? An SL320 with a generous overdrive could be pretty nice? Any thoughts?

Any help appreciated, MBSanta, New Zealand
 
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#2 ·
I recently swapped a 5 speed from a 300E into my 300TE wagon but it was a much simpler job since both cars have the M103 motor. I do know that the flywheel that you will use is dependent on the transmission. The earlier cars used the single mass and the later ones used the dual mass. The input shaft on the transmission for the later cars was shorter. Since you are looking at using an early transmission on a later M104 you will need the single mass flywheel but you will need to figure out the timing windows on the flywheel. I'm not very familiar with what is involved fitting the flywheel to the M104 since my experience on these cars is solely related to the M103 and M119 motors.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the replies - what I have read recently:
The M111, M102, M104, M103, OM603, OM606 engines all have the same bellhousing pattern. A 5 speed from any of those engines will work across any of those engines. If you get a 5 speed from a car with a single mass flywheel - you need to use a single mass flywheel with that transmission and vise versa with the dual mass flywheel.

Long input shaft is used on single mass flywheel
Short input shaft is used on dual mass flywheel

I'm no mechanic! I will be getting the work done by my mechanic. I want to make sure that he has everything he needs. It seems that the long input shaft and single mass fly wheel from the donor car will be transplanted along with the gear box. And that I will have to adapt the magnet pick up on the flywheel - can any one advise on how to adapt the magnet pick up?

Still wondering if the 300D clutch will suit the M104 also....

Cheers
 
#5 ·
This blog answers a lot of my questions:
Artisan : Mercedes W124 5 Speed Swap Guide

But as usual raises some as well. Apparently the HFM M104's absolutely need the magnet in order to run. The CIS M103 and M104 do NOT need the magnet to run.

HFM M104 and CIS M104 are explained here:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/performance-paddock/38882-w124-coupes-hfm-cis-motors.html

But which one do I have and how can I tell?

It looks like the only CIS M104s used in W124s were the 104.980/981:
M104.980/981 was CIS-E & was the 1990-92 300CE & 1990-93 300SL powerplant

M.B. 6-cylinder engine data on W124s:
ENGINE - YEARS MANUFACTURED & W124 MODEL FITTED
M103.940 - 1987-1991 206 E, 300E 2.6
M103.983 - 1986-1992 300E, 300TE / 1988-1989 300CE
M103.985 - 1990-1992 300E and 300TE 4matic
M104.980 - 1990-1992 300CE
M104.942 - 1993 300E 2.8
M104.992 - 1993 300E/CE/TE / 1994-1995 E320 (sedan/T/C/A -cabriolet-)

ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM:
All M103s and M104.980 - CSI-E (Contininouos Injection System - Electronic)
M104.942/92 - HFM-SFI (Hot Film Management - Sequential Fuel Injection)

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W124 it appears that 90-93 300CE-24 coupes and cabriolets and the 89-92 300TE-24 were the only W124s fitted with the 104.980 engine. From what I have read the only car fitted with the 104.981 is the R129 300SL 24.
 
#6 · (Edited)

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#8 ·
OK - it seems that the 300D gearbox will likely fit into an M104 W124 (E320, 320E or 320CE).
The single mass flywheel will need to have the magnet installed.

Still wanting to know:
1. The drive shaft may have to be altered. Can any one confirm if the drive shaft will need altering on all models or just the shorter coupe?
2. Will the 300D clutch transplant directly and be ok for the job? I believe so but am not certain.
3. I don't know what I'm talking about here so forgive me if this question is stupid - What I understand is that there may be a problem with the length of the input shaft (whatever that is). Will the 300D input shaft be suitable? If not - will the input shaft I already have work?

Thanks in advance

PS - The R129.061 300SL-24 was the only SL using an M104 engine and the only SL of that era that came out with a manual box. It ran a 717.451 - GL 76/30 B-5.
 
#9 ·
PS - The R129.061 300SL-24 was the only SL using an M104 engine and the only SL of that era that came out with a manual box. It ran a 717.451 - GL 76/30 B-5.
that's the dog leg box as well I think. different again. the early 104 engine was just a 103 block with a twin cam head.

About to do something similar soon - 5 speed from a 103 onto a 104 (but the early version 104 - not the HFM).
 
#12 ·
Thanks. I had a 300E before my current E320. I have enjoyed them both but prefer the noticeable extra power of the twin cam 3.2 litre engine and as mine has had a recent head rebuild I'm not expecting to have any head trouble.

Still looking for advice on my proposed transplant. See my 3 outstanding questions a few posts back.
 
#18 · (Edited)
All of the M104 powerd W124s with a factory manual transmission had same 1:1 5th gear dogleg box as the SL. That doesn't not preclude you from using the overdrive 5spd you have.


You will need to weld up new timing windows to your diesel flywheel in order to make it work with the E320 crank sensor.

The E320 driveshaft much wider flanges than your non turbo diesel. The E320 driveshaft and its larger flange probably won't bolt up to the 5spd your have because of a clearance issue.


The easiest solution is to swap the diesel driveshaft into the E320 as well as the input flange for your differential.

Your non turbo diesel 5spd likely looks like the one on the left, E320 right.


If you are lucky the diesel front half DS will use the same size spline at the center support as your E320. That would mean that you can use the diesel front have DS and E320 rear half. I doubt you'll be so lucky so you'll have to use the whole diesel DS.


Working our way back to the differential you'll need to swap the diesel input flange (right) onto the E320 differential.


You will need a deep, thin wall 30mm socket to remove the nut holding the flange to the diff.


The first thing I would do is get underneath both cars and measure the size of the flex disks and the spline at the center support. If they are equal, great! You don't have to do any of the above. If they are not (highly likely) You'll have to go through that whole process.
 
#20 ·
Spline count was not always different, it's based, like everything else in the drivtrain, on torque rating. AFAIK, in the w124's all the 6cyl engines have the same length engine and therefor the same DS length. The single mass flywheels and clutches are all based on clutch diameter. You will probably want the 9" clutch. Your transmission is almost certainly underrated for the torque.
 
#25 ·
It should be added that the Meyle catalog is INVALUABLE for determining flex disk sizes, it is the only catalog that provides measurements in addition to OE part numbers.
 
#27 ·
the flywheel is on the engine side, and the back of it is the surface the actual clutch disk grabs onto. bolted to the back of the flywheel is a sandwich consisting of the clutch plate, and the pressure plate assembly. the transmission has a splined input shaft which slides into the clutch plate so that when the clutch plate is pushed onto the flywheel, it powers the input shaft and the car goes assuming its in gear... there's also a 'throwout bearing' behind all that which the clutch fork pulls back, this releases the spring loaded pressure plate , which in turn releases the clutch so it can spin freely so you can shift gears or stop.
 
#28 ·
Thank you for the detailed answer - very helpful. How does the engine connect to the flywheel? I imagine it is a splined shaft? And I guess that the prop shaft flange connects to the gearbox - correct? Prop shaft spline to universal, universal to drive shaft (spline again?), drive shaft to diff (flange?)? Sorry for my ignorance.
 
#31 ·
You're right - it'll be a mechanic that does the job but I want to make sure that I have all the parts that he'll need. He's not a benz specialist but is a great mechanic. He repairs anything and does a fantastic job - from my Merc to my Fendt tractor, Iseki tractor, outboard boat motors to chainsaws. But I don't want him searching out parts - It is a waste of his time so if I can do the leg work it'll help. Thank you for your help - sorry for my lack of knowledge. I'm hoping that this thread will prove to be useful to others (although perhaps not my really basic questions which I'm sure most embarking on a tranny swap will already well know the answers to).
 
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