M103/M104 Headers - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Go Back   Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Sedan Forums > W124 E,CE,D,TD Class
New User? Register - Forgot Password

BenzWorld.org is the premier Mercedes-Benz Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-15-2009, 06:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Nov 2008
Vehicle: 420 SEL, 300E, 300CE, 190E, 79' 450SLC 5.0 #925
Location: Santa Clarita, California
Posts: 257
M103/M104 Headers

I just finished the prototype performance headers for the M103 and M104 engines, take a look and let me know what you think. These are designed as a CAT forward package. 304 Stainless construction.




M103/M104 Headers-header.jpg

Last edited by Tomson; 01-10-2010 at 09:32 PM. Reason: add link
Tomson is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-15-2009, 07:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
BenzWorld Elite
 
necromancer's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2007
Vehicle: 1990 Mercedes Benz 300E
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,336
Nice. How about designing exhaust manifolds for the m103 to accomodate a twin-turbo setup? A modern-day turbo-techniks or mosselman setup with variable-vane wastegate turbos... I'm sure many forum members would be interested in that design exercise.
necromancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 07:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Jayare's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2005
Vehicle: 86 190E 2.3L 16V, 93 400E, 98 S500
Location: Seminole, FL
Posts: 7,396
Lifetime Premium Member
Very nice work there. Keeps us posted on their performance. Also, fill out your profile so we'll know where you are located.

Jayare

Last edited by Jayare; 08-15-2009 at 07:15 PM.
Jayare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 03:56 AM   #4 (permalink)
BenzWorld Veteran
 
nick.ged's Avatar
 
Date registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 682
one thing i would say is the std six cylinder exaust configuration is done so that it keeps two seperate pipes, using cylinders 1,2 and 3 as one and 3,4 and 5 as another.

performance headders i have seen that are already avalible follow this rule, and keep all six primary pipes the same length, then the cilinders will all breath exactly the same.

i would redesign that manifold so as to keep that setup, as it produces better results.


that aside, nice work, they look really nice.
__________________

320ce AMG
widebody

twin turbo
"mutty" 'der nail'

soon to be a six speed nail

only do the mods others tell you to, otherwise you will be in trouble

all mods, even those that are almost identical, were not created equal, you risk turning your car into a ricer if you dont follow the crowd, you have been warned...
it is obviously correct that if your car aint shiny, your opinion doesnt count
nick.ged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 09:13 AM   #5 (permalink)
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Nov 2008
Vehicle: 420 SEL, 300E, 300CE, 190E, 79' 450SLC 5.0 #925
Location: Santa Clarita, California
Posts: 257
my header project

The headers are 3 into 1, front and rear banks then 2 into 1 to the "CAT" . Important attention to detail include the final phase were the 2 into 1 collector transition uses a 3 degree angle of inclination to savage off as much exhaust as possible. The best effort were taken to produce equal length primary tubes and still fit this comfortable into the space allowed.
Tomson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2009, 03:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
BenzWorld Veteran
 
nick.ged's Avatar
 
Date registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 682
they look real nice, you have done a wonderfull job. how long did it take to make them?

edit: in fact looking again at the picture, is that a cad image or the actual hedders?


in the uk, cars before 1990 do not have to have cats, on those vehicles mercedes kept the 3 into 1 seperate all the way to the back of the car, to gain the max performance. as far as exaust goes it is like having two three cylinder engines. turbo tecnics also kept that design, there are two seperate exaust systems to aid flow. i have not seen a cat setup, but i'm sure ed posted about two small cats in his system.

you guys are lucky in being left hand drive also, that system would not fit uk/jap/australian/cypres cars, our stering box is in the way!

how much have they cost to manufacture, what would you selling price be.
nick.ged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2009, 06:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
Moditšt!
 
Zeitgeist's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: '87 300TD/'90 300D/'94 Quattro/'89 Vanagon
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 46,461
Lifetime Premium Member
Very nice! I'd like to have a custom stainless header for the OM606 (M104 might be the same design) with a single T3 turbo collector
Zeitgeist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2009, 09:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Nov 2008
Vehicle: 420 SEL, 300E, 300CE, 190E, 79' 450SLC 5.0 #925
Location: Santa Clarita, California
Posts: 257
Time to go left handed, haha, this is the finished product ready to bolt on "prototype". We will turn this into a production unit selling for track and off road use only w/disclaimer. The OEM emission fitting will be installed but capped off and the O2 sensor bung will be there for obvious reasons. The "one off" was expensive but we hope to have units priced in the 1K range. It will work on 3.0L 12 valve 3.0L 24 valve and 3.2L 24 valve plus all AMG version of these engines. Even the 300SEL or SE can use them. Take Care.
Tomson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2009, 10:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
BenzWorld Elite
 
RBYCC's Avatar
 
Date registered: May 2005
Vehicle: 88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Location: REHOBOTH BEACH, DE
Posts: 2,254
I would suggest for credibility doing a base line dyno pull followed up same day with a pull after header install.
Dyno doesn't lie and one can see exactly what the headers do to the power band.
If possible perform the pulls on a load dyno like a Mustang.
The load dyno will provide more real world power numbers.

Best to consider pulls for the M103 and M104 as the engines have very different characterics.
__________________
TURBOTECHNICS TWIN TURBO M103 WIDEBODY




1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TT WIDEBODY COUPE
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG SEDAN
2005 G55K AMG TRUCK
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES COUPE
RBYCC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2009, 10:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Date registered: Jul 2009
Vehicle: '92 300TE 4matic 240,000miles
Location: Washington
Posts: 7,597
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomson View Post
Time to go left handed, haha, this is the finished product ready to bolt on "prototype". We will turn this into a production unit selling for track and off road use only w/disclaimer. The OEM emission fitting will be installed but capped off and the O2 sensor bung will be there for obvious reasons. The "one off" was expensive but we hope to have units priced in the 1K range. It will work on 3.0L 12 valve 3.0L 24 valve and 3.2L 24 valve plus all AMG version of these engines. Even the 300SEL or SE can use them. Take Care.
Ummmm....I'm sure you've considered this into the design parameters (correct?), but just bolting on headers without any attention to the exhaust valves can burn them without a cam change. How much the MB onboard computer(MAF) will compensate for the need for more fuel, I have no idea. Maybe the overall length of your headers makes them a non-scavenging type header? In a modern engine, scavenging headers can actually decease performance over the factory cast iron.

Increase in HP can only come from an increase in dynamic cylinder pressure. Most headers scavenge, which creates a 'suction' or a condition of less than atmospheric pressure. Therefore, there is no way that a 'suction' can create an increase in dynamic cylinder pressure. And then there's the whole issue of back pressure and creating more or less torque etc. I question any actual HP gains, but your headers are going to give off MUCH unnecessary heat. Open hood, show 'cool' factor is high though...

I'd pay way more attention to how AMG got performance out of these engines, if you want to modify.

Kevin

Last edited by Real1shepherd; 08-17-2009 at 12:22 PM.
Real1shepherd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Sedan Forums > W124 E,CE,D,TD Class

Bookmarks



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
m103 vs m104 mbeclass W124 E,CE,D,TD Class 61 06-01-2011 08:33 AM
m104 to replace m103 ? Capthook W124 E,CE,D,TD Class 13 12-06-2010 12:14 PM
M103 vs M104 108Benz W124 E,CE,D,TD Class 16 07-19-2009 08:53 AM
Do I have a M103 or M104? KillerTomatos W124 E,CE,D,TD Class 7 07-25-2008 10:05 PM
M103 and M104!! which is more durable? tiger_biru W124 E,CE,D,TD Class 18 02-26-2006 01:30 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:44 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.