The m117, m103, m104 and m119. WHat is the horsepower and torque rateing for each of these motors. For instance the m103 3,6liter rated at 272hp and i think 280torque. How much would a twin turbo yield in both hp and torque to a m103 3.0 and then an m103 3.6 twin turbo. And that goes the same with the hammer m117 the 400e and 500e m119 and the m104 3.2. I read somewhere that the CLK-DTM'S used the hammer motor, the only difference was that it had a twin turbo. If a supra can produce 1200hp from a twin turbo straight six 3.4 liter motor 24 valve, with around 276 hp and torque, the bmw m3 can get 300 to 800hp with either a twin turbo or a supercharger and a porsche can crank out anything from 300 to 800hp with the same style engine, as the merces bimmers, supras and Porsches how come the mercs cant do it. A 1200hp complete supra twin turbo engine will cost around 30 grand. How come nobody has tried to do the same with the merc straight six engines. For goodness sakes there is a hell ouf alot of room the m103 engine for two large turbos. Someone help me and respond, cause i dont understand why this hasn't been achieved yet.
The m117, m103, m104 and m119. WHat is the horsepower and torque rateing for each of these motors. For instance the m103 3,6liter rated at 272hp and i think 280torque. How much would a twin turbo yield in both hp and torque to a m103 3.0 and then an m103 3.6 twin turbo. And that goes the same with the hammer m117 the 400e and 500e m119 and the m104 3.2. I read somewhere that the CLK-DTM'S used the hammer motor, the only difference was that it had a twin turbo. If a supra can produce 1200hp from a twin turbo straight six 3.4 liter motor 24 valve, with around 276 hp and torque, the bmw m3 can get 300 to 800hp with either a twin turbo or a supercharger and a porsche can crank out anything from 300 to 800hp with the same style engine, as the merces bimmers, supras and Porsches how come the mercs cant do it. A 1200hp complete supra twin turbo engine will cost around 30 grand. How come nobody has tried to do the same with the merc straight six engines. For goodness sakes there is a hell ouf alot of room the m103 engine for two large turbos. Someone help me and respond, cause i dont understand why this hasn't been achieved yet.
Mosselman and Turbotechnics produced kits for the M103-12V and M104-24V in the early nineties.
Kits included twin Garrett T2 turbos each one being powered off of three cylinders.
Boost is fixed at a very conservative .48bar/7lbs
Smaller turbos spool up faster and have less lag compared to the inertia required in a larger turbo.
Don't get clouded by high horsepower figures, look more at the increase over stock.
My Turbotechnics install produced 196HP / 220LBFT torque on a Mustang load dyno.
Some minor mods in the intake and boost piping were made after the dyno tune which probably resulted in +11HP / +18LBft.
So 207 / 238 x 1.3 loss factor = 269HP / 309LBFT .
The Mustang is a load type dyno which reads about 18% lower then an inertia dyno such as the DynoJet.
Correct using the more common Dynojet results and we are at 318HP/365LBFT.
This is higher then the published TT/Mosselman numbers but the install uses a modern stand alone computer programmed additional injector controller.
Numbers can be supported by a 5.46 second 0-60 time recorded using a G-Tech accelerometer.
With cooler ambient temps ( run recorded at 90 degree F) it should run about 2-3 tenths faster !!!
If you do a search on this forum you will find a lot of the information that you are searching for, but here is a start.
M103 base 3L motor runs 177HP and can get up to about 300 with TT. Increasing the strength on the bottom end of the motors, boring them out, lightening the components and really increasing boost MIGHT yield 400. The reason few go the TT route is that there were only two suppliers and they have both quit making components for the systems - the exhaust manifolds being the primary issue that would have to be custom built. Also, it is much easier to go from 177HP to near 300HP by simply trading a 300E for a 400E. Less cost differential and a complete system.
The work on the M119 motors, which has a baseline of 275HP and 320HP is the only way to look at much bigger HP. There is minimal room under the hood to get ANY additional components under there. We are working on a supercharger for a 500E right now and it is requiring much effort to find real estate for the SC, much less the plumbing that is associated with it.
There is also the issue of heat in the V8 versions of the car. The 124 was not intended to play with a V8 so heat is always an issue. Add boost and heat becomes MORE of an issue to deal with.
As for the CLK-DTMs, no they use a later motor, based on the E55 motor. The car you might be thinking of is the Mercedes Sauber C10 which used the M117 32 Valve motor [a variant of the motor used in the Hammer and other AMG cars of the 80's] or the Mercedes Sauber C11 which used the M119 32 valve motor [a variant of th motor used in the 500E]. Both has massive Twin Turbos tucked in the fenders. The only way you could utilize that design would be to remove the hood and fenders of a W124 body and hang the turbos off the sides - very UN Mercedes.
As you search this forum you will find that there are several projects going on right NOW. There are Twin Turbo projects using the Turbo Technics system out of England. There are also a couple of Mosselman Twin Turbos [like mine] and then there is Pumpish who is fabricating all his own system. Further down the pike my shop is building up a couple of M119 motors using lightweight pistons, conrods, balanced crank and kicking in some kind of forced induction [I say some kind because we are working with a supercharger right now but there is a possible turbo solution that is on the horizon].
None of the big tuner shops like brabus or RENNtech are still doing 124 cars [although RENNtech will do a 500E motor for about $35K I understand].
So all you have to do is do a search and read. The projects are there, some are complete, some are in progress. My guess is that by spring there will be examples of just about every way to tune up these cars.
you are both a lot more patient than i am. God bless you for that.
i try to avoid answering questions that can easily be answered by searching google or wikipedia first. especially one so poorly written with dense print and no paragraph breaks.
and when i do i usually state something like "a google search could easily have supplied you with your answer."
good karma your way.
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'O=00=O' BMW 2002. long live the legend.
you are both a lot more patient than i am. God bless you for that.
i try to avoid answering questions that can easily be answered by searching google or wikipedia first. especially one so poorly written with dense print and no paragraph breaks.
and when i do i usually state something like "a google search could easily have supplied you with your answer."
M111 4cyl such as mine also was in the W124 for the Funds Challenged Mercedes enthusiast....the M104 engine is capable of superior HP than the Supra but a Mercedes owner vs Supra owner is night and day..For those that are interested.I have settled on leaving my cabriolet right about 300 or Hp and decided another W124 would be more suitable for my 1000hp Turbo dream...I am way to busy working to take many pics but I like the end result to speak for itself....
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