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what's the difference between the 12mm ball and 14mm ball?

7K views 7 replies 2 participants last post by  325Pilot 
#1 ·
I just got an awesome set of 18x8 stock mercedes wheels in perfect condition. I already ordered 15mm H&R spacers for the front as they were hitting the shocks. Now I need to get longer bolts to go with them, but I am unsure if they are meant for 14mm bolts, or 12mm. how do I know? I'm not sure what car they came off of, and the only thing that comes up in google when I put in the wheel number is a page for replacement G-wagon wheels. Is there a list of the different stock wheels and specs? also, it "seems" like the bolt is a perfect match to the wheel, but I'm not sure what the 14mm seat would be like exactly.

btw, the number on the back of the wheel is 1644011302.

I'll put up a pic later tonight, they look sick ont he car...
 
#2 ·
Are you asking the difference between ball seat and cone seat lugs? That is the area of the lug that actually touches and tightens against the rim, and that I would assume would be dependent upon the rim design. You could ask your local tire shop to look at the rim for you if you can't tell for sure. As far as 12mm vs. 14mm aperature... that is dependent upon your hub. This is not the thread pitch OR the length of the lug, just the diameter (aperature) of the lug. Most MBZ bolt patterns until recently, was 5x112 12mm. I don't think the 14mm aperature lugs came into play until around 2000/2001. Someone else might know for sure, but for example... ML lugs are 14mm, new 211's are 14mm, I 'm pretty sure 220's are too, but every 124, 201, 140, and even 210's are all 12mm aperature lugs from my recollection. Hope that helped.

Brian
 
#3 ·
I AM the local tire shop, well at least I've been working there for over a year... No, from what I have read, there are three different styles of lug bolt heads: the 12mm ball, the 14mm ball, and conical. Some of the newer cars come with 14mm bolts, and they of course have the 14mm ball head. There are companys that make a 12mm bolt, with the 14mm ball head just for this, putting wheels meant for 14mm bolts on a 12mm hub. My question is how you identify the 14mm ball head, without knowing which car they came off of? The bolts I have, the 12mm's, look and feel like they mate perfectly with these wheels, so if I can't find an answer, I will just use longer versions of those. Or if I work on a benz with 14mm bolts tommorrow, I'll see what their wheels look like. I'm just not sure if I'm missing a subtle difference so I want to bew sure, because I for one know how important these things are.
 
#4 ·
Oh, and I beleive they are from an '06, the guy drove his car from the dealership to my shop to get 20s put on, this was just before I started working there. sick wheels. Oh, and thanks for the tip, it was the OVP relay, runs so good now, I love it.
 
#5 ·
the ball seat is rounded, and the cone seat is a flat v shaped angle seat. If you put the 12mm next to the 14mm you can see an obvious difference in size. the 14mm wont even think about threading into a w124 hub. the 12mm look loke standard lugs (to me) and the 14mm look bigger, stubbier, fatter, whatever.... we had a guy mount 2005 e class rims on his 96 s class. the rims came off a car using 14mm lugs, but his hub takes 12mm lugs. It worked fine. BUT, moreimportantly I think, is the actual hub size. If you are at a tire shop, you should have access to millions of charts and catalogues, so make sure you are not trying to put a rim with a smaller hub bore on your 124 hub. More likely case is, the newer hub bore would be bigger, not smaller, so hub centric rings would be necesary to ensure hub centricness, if that made any sense. Isn't there some old guy at your shop that has worked there for a thousand years? usually those guys are a wealth of information, and he might be able to identify wether you have the ball or cone seat, and help you measure the PROPER added lug length you need. If they are too long, they will make noise as the rub on the back side of the hub. If they are not in far enough, you are asking for a disaster...... SERIOUSLY. If you aren't sure, don't use your car a a guinea pig. Ask someone who knows for sure.... Brian


Oh and no prob on the OVP. You've probably seen lots of threads about the same problem... very common. Under $75 bucks... right?
 
#6 ·
yeah, I know that they are ball seat, wheel and bolts, and they are the same size hubcentrics, stock MB 64.5, very snug fit. I was just wodering about how the seat is different on a 14mm bolt, compared to the seat on a 12mm bolt. I know that there must be some differnce because there is a company that sell the 12mm bolts, with the 14mm seats for this purpose. Since they seem perfect to me, I went ahead and ordered the longer bolts with the standard 12mm ball seat.
 
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