Kreen? - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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#1 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 09:07 PM
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Kreen?

I'm considering using Kreen (by Kano Labs) to clean out my engine and hopefully fix some of the intense blow-by I'm having (see this thread)

Here's a big thread full of other folks raving about it.

I haven't found much info on it's use in diesel engines, and I'd love to hear from anyone else who has put it their 123 or any other diesel.

I already ordered a bottle, so once I go through the treatment I will let people know how it goes.
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#2 (permalink) Old 12-19-2011, 06:41 AM
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I sort of read through it real quick. Add to Oil?

Let us know what you find out.

Dave

1984 300D Blk, my 1st MB, 5th diesel! I want it to be my last car I need as a DD! We can rebuild!
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#3 (permalink) Old 12-30-2011, 12:09 AM
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The Kreen came in the mail yesterday.

This is some nasty stuff. It's only available for Industrial Use, not retail sale because it's so hazardous.

Here's the ingredients:
Severely Hydrotreated Petroleum Distiallates
Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates
Aliphatic Alcohols
Glycol Ether
Aliphatic Ketone
Proprietary Ingredients

The standard instructions (on the can) are to add a pint to the fuel and a pint to the oil, drive 1000 miles and then change the oil.
On that other forum thread, most people tote it as an engine oil cleaner more than a fuel cleaner and mostly use it as such.

The can also includes instructions for a Kreen Purge:
Pull the "plugs" and put 1oz in each cylinder. Replace the plugs and crank engine for 15 seconds. Let sit overnight.
Add remainder of quart to crankcase, let engine run for at least 30 minutes. Change oil.

Any thoughts on adding through the plugs as directed in the purge?
I'm assuming that these instructions are mostly written for gasoline engines.
Would it be better to crank it out the glow plug holes like the MMO soak?
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#4 (permalink) Old 12-30-2011, 01:09 AM
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Hmm. Interesting. I read the thread referenced, and they do rave on about the stuff. It seems to be all gassers, however.

I would be a little careful about putting something that volatile into the diesel, as it is a compression ignition, and to my mind this would be no different from injecting a bunch of gasoline in there and then just cranking it over. It would likely ignite part-way into the compression cycle and really do some damage to the engine.

The conventional wisdom in the past was that anything in the oil that is a super-aggressive solvent would A) Mess up the seals, causing a lot of leaks B) Turn a bunch of carbon deposits into a thick goop and plug your oil passages, etc. and cause oil starvation damage. C) Ruin the lubricity of the oil and cause engine damage through compromised oil performance.

Like you, I have an engine with significant blow-by. I would love to find a SAFE way, short of an overhaul or ring job, to improve the situation. I have done the MMO soak, and although it smoothed the engine performance, I still have quite a bit of blow-by.

I am tempted to try the Kreen, as you are thinking about, but I am quite concerned about items A-C above. Please keep us updated on your research.

If I did put it in the cylinders, then I would simply put it in, let it sit overnight, and then perhaps follow up with plain oil (to dilute it and render it less volatile/combustible) and then run the starter to crank it out the glow plug holes.

Placing it in the oil gives me the same concerns as I noted above. I just would prefer that there was a lot more evidence on running this in diesels.

Sincerely,

PE
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#5 (permalink) Old 12-30-2011, 12:17 PM
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Some members have said that switching to Synthetic Oil (a good idea to help with Winter starting) and driving about 200-300 miles will also clean out things and un-stick Piston Rings.

However, the above will not help worn Piston Ring Grooves or worn Cylinders.

I have often wondered what additives do to the chemicals that give Multi-viscosity Oil the ability to be Multi-viscosity.

On single Wt Engine Oil I know if I add a very liquid additive like Marvel Mystery Oil it is going to thin the Oil to some extent; and, I know that if I dump in some STP it is going to thicken the Oil to some extent.

Not sure what happens if the above is done to Multi-viscosity Oil.

Last edited by 300Dman; 12-30-2011 at 12:26 PM.
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#6 (permalink) Old 01-01-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 300Dman View Post
Some members have said that switching to Synthetic Oil (a good idea to help with Winter starting) and driving about 200-300 miles will also clean out things and un-stick Piston Rings.

However, the above will not help worn Piston Ring Grooves or worn Cylinders.

I have often wondered what additives do to the chemicals that give Multi-viscosity Oil the ability to be Multi-viscosity.

On single Wt Engine Oil I know if I add a very liquid additive like Marvel Mystery Oil it is going to thin the Oil to some extent; and, I know that if I dump in some STP it is going to thicken the Oil to some extent.

Not sure what happens if the above is done to Multi-viscosity Oil.
Years ago, I went for the 2 yr HS diesel vocational class & one of the things the teacher said was that there is nothing you can do to the engine oil if it's time for e rebuild.

1984 300D Blk, my 1st MB, 5th diesel! I want it to be my last car I need as a DD! We can rebuild!
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#7 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 11:18 AM
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I've had synthetic oil in my engine for about 2k miles now and no change in the blow-by. I wouldn't be worried about it as much except that it's pushing so much oil into the air system that the entire underbody of the car is coated with oil, and getting into the vacuum pump and lines. (I'm going to add a small paper filter to the vacuum lines in hopes of saving the pump from destruction)

I contacted Kano Labs and asked them what they think about using their product in a diesel. Hopefully I will get a response.

Quote:
I would be a little careful about putting something that volatile into the diesel, as it is a compression ignition, and to my mind this would be no different from injecting a bunch of gasoline in there and then just cranking it over. It would likely ignite part-way into the compression cycle and really do some damage to the engine.
Here's what I was thinking: put the Kreen into the cylinders in a cold engine. Shut off fuel, screw glow plugs just one or two threads in to keep the fluid in there but keep the compression lower. Crank with starter for 15 seconds or so, then let sit overnight. Crank it back out (perhaps diluting it as you recommend).

Quote:
The conventional wisdom in the past was that anything in the oil that is a super-aggressive solvent would A) Mess up the seals, causing a lot of leaks B) Turn a bunch of carbon deposits into a thick goop and plug your oil passages, etc. and cause oil starvation damage. C) Ruin the lubricity of the oil and cause engine damage through compromised oil performance.
Why would these be so much worse in a diesel than a gasoline engine?
What about doing it "purge style" where a larger quantity is run through the oil with engine on idle for a half hour? (and then changing the oil) Seems like at least it would address the lubricity concern.
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#8 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 11:41 AM
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Did some more searching and found a few, but not many, links that mention using Kreen in a diesel (including this one, lol). One quotes Kano Labs saying its safe in a diesel.

Chemical engine cleaners - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com

Kano Labs shares Plant Maintenance Tips and Tricks

Kreen---internal engine cleaner - TDIClub Forums
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#9 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 06:38 PM
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Wow, the TDI post is from 1999!

Give it a try, seems like you've done your homework. Let us know how it works in a MB!

1984 300D Blk, my 1st MB, 5th diesel! I want it to be my last car I need as a DD! We can rebuild!
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#10 (permalink) Old 01-06-2012, 09:01 PM
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Here's the response from Kano Labs:
Quote:
A. Kreen will improve the seals

B. Never experienced this problem Kreen will soften carbon deposits

C. No-But when purging only run the engine for ½ hour and then drain oil and replace with fresh oil.
The other day I decided to try the cylinder soak since my snapped linkage forced me to let it sit anyway.

I did a compression test first (just got the kit!), although the engine was NOT at operating temp. It had sat for a couple hours. It was a long day and I hadn't eaten much. So shoot me. Here's what I got:
1 - 245
2 - 180
4 - 300
5 - 200
3 - 260
Not very exciting, even if you add the 10-15psi that I've heard other people suggest for a cold engine test.

So, I put a little under an ounce in each cylinder (b/c at least 20% dripped out) and put the glow plugs back in just a tad, and 15oz in the crankcase, and then cranked the starter twice for about 10 seconds each time.
I let it sit overnight and then ran the engine for about half an hour, as directed, and then changed the oil.
I then added the remaining 11oz (some spilled) into the crankcase with the fresh oil and went on a 250-mile round trip drive to Olympia.
The blow-by is not any better.
However, I checked the compression today at operating temp and was very excited by the results. I know that this isn't going to be the best indicator because of the cold and warm engine temp inconsistency, but I don't think the drastic increases in the 2nd and 5th cylinder compression readings can be attributed to that alone. All the above and below numbers were repeated twice in a row for accuracy:
1 - 260
2 - 240
4 - 330
5 - 280
3 - 290
Still not great, but I have hope!
I'm leaving for Oakland tomorrow and am going to leave the Kreen in for the 1600 mile round trip. Will do an oil change and then another compression test when I get back.
Also will be doing a valve adjustment, check the timing chain, and do a leak-back test at that time.

Try out some Kreen! It was $14 plus $7.65 s/h for a quart, but came with a free can of Kroil, an aerosol penetrating lubricant that supposedly can't be beat.
I plan on ordering some more and trying it out on some other diesels. I'd love to hear some feedback from other folks who try it out in their diesel.
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