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Old 07-29-2011, 11:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Timing Injection Pump While Engine is Running

Hello All, I have read the old threads pertaining to injection problems, nozzle replacement and injection pump timing. There were a couple of threads discussing timing the injection pump while the engine is running. Has anyone done this? I speculate you would either hear an rpm change or a noise level change from the engine. Or maybe not. I don't have the drip tool, but it looks like one can be made easily. Thought I would try this procedure first. Any thoughts and instructions are appreciated.
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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At your own risk!

Its only to be done to cars that you want more power from or dont care about.


If you want to make it run the way it should you can remove the ip, set it and then install it to have a dead on set ip timing.

I advise this as the drip method is confusing for first time diy types.

Now if your car is on its last leg or you just want to push the timing limits you can "slightly loosen" the 3 main 13mm nuts at the base on the ip where it meets the block and the one 13mm that is at the rear near the oil filter housing. After you have done this start the motor and check for oil leaks around the ip where it mates the block and if it they are none the fun begins!

Take a long floor jack handle or long bar (metal shovel handle..ect) and place it against the power steering box go up at an angle to he side on the ip so as to have the other end pointing to the oil cap. Find a steady safe position that doesnt push on any hard injector lines or anything else you think will break, then as the motor idles push the ip towards the motor paying attention to the notch mark on the ip near the 13mm nut that points towards the driver side fender. About half a mm is a good advance but you will hear the engine sound change. If you did it correctly you will have a tad more power and still be able to start the motor when cold very easy. If hard starting develops or any color smoke besides grey and or black then you went to far.



This is from my first hand experience so who ever has rude comments do right ahead.
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I am told that there devices that clip on to the hard line to sense the stress developed by the pressure build-up during the injection pulse. It controls a timing light. With this you can time the engine much like a gasoline engine.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:16 AM   #4 (permalink)
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A noted in Post #2 turning the Fuel Injection Pump against the Tension of the Fuel Injection Lines is going to be a chore. And, remember you are using force against an the Aluminum Housing.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I am told that there devices that clip on to the hard line to sense the stress developed by the pressure build-up during the injection pulse. It controls a timing light. With this you can time the engine much like a gasoline engine.
This subject comes up several times a year.

In order to use the timing device as you describe you have to have already timed your Engine according to the Mercedes spec. (That is a Static timing.)

Then you hook up the above described Tool and see what degrees the Timing light tells you when the Engine is running and you have created your own spec for your Engine. You also need to note the rpm that timing was done at.
(This is Dynamic Timing and Mercedes has no specs for Dynamic Timing.)

(Also remember the Timer on the Mercedes Engine advances the Begin of Injection.)

So you cannot just go out and buy the Tool; clamp it on and use it to time your Engine.

The above described Tool favors a person who has several of or a Fleet of the same vehicles.

Some Mercedes Fuel Injection Pumps; I believe after 1982 can use something called an A&B Light because that have a port on the side of the Governor Housing that allows the A&B Light and also a Timing/Locking Pin to be used.

The A&B Light and Timing/Locking Pin reference on a raised spot on the Fuel Injection Pump Camshaft/Governor. (Again a Static Timing.)

To ID if your Fuel Injection Pump can use the A&B light or the Timing Pin look for the Oval Plate with the 2 screws pointed to by the Blue Arrows and a large Central Plug in the Red Circle.
Attached Thumbnails
Timing Injection Pump While Engine is Running-fuei-injection-pump-3b.jpg  

Last edited by 300Dman; 07-30-2011 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DieselKraut22 View Post
Its only to be done to cars that you want more power from or dont care about.
Not sure what you mean by a car I don't care about. Does that mean this adjustment procedure could cause some type of internal engine damage over time?

The reason I was thinking of doing this is I am just anxious to adjust and tune as many items as I can and I don't have the drip tool at the moment. The drip method is very straight forward so it may be prudent to just get the tool and adjust the IP per factory specs first and tweak the IP later if I feel I want a bit more power.

Also, is there a gasket where the IP meets the block? You mention a possible oil leak when the pump is loosened. Will loosening the IP break the seal and cause an oil leak after it is tightened? Thanks for all the advice!

Last edited by SoCal240d; 07-30-2011 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:00 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal240d View Post
Not sure what you mean by a car I don't care about. Does that mean this adjustment procedure could cause some type of internal engine damage over time?

The reason I was thinking of doing this is I am just anxious to adjust and tune as many items as I can and I don't have the drip tool at the moment. The drip method is very straight forward so it may be prudent to just get the tool and adjust the IP per factory specs first and tweak the IP later if I feel I want a bit more power.

Also, is there a gasket where the IP meets the block? You mention a possible oil leak when the pump is loosened. Will loosening the IP break the seal and cause an oil leak after it is tightened? Thanks for all the advice!
Using the locking tool and setting the engine to -15degrees is the best way to time it and know you are on spec IF you have no timing chain stretch. Most of the time people dont line up the TDC mark and camshaft gear mark so they THINK they have more stretch then they actually do.

As for the timing advance you will be "washing the cylinder just as you would it you turn up your alda all the way. Yes it seems more peppy but you lose fuel and wear the motor out faster doing it. If you set the pump and lock it as per the FSM and then set the motor to the correct degree you will be dead on and have know guessing if you did something wrong
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Old 07-30-2011, 11:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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DieselKraut, thanks for your keen advice. Will update my results when the job is done.
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Old 07-30-2011, 11:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 300Dman View Post
(This is Dynamic Timing and Mercedes has no specs for Dynamic Timing.)
MB does have specs for dynamic timing.



And there is a special tool to turn the pump.

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Old 07-30-2011, 12:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I got my ip on a 83 300cd calibrated at 24 with locking pin and throu drip method, before doing it tried to read and My question comes? some people say you got set to -14 and others at 24. Could somebody explain if there are 2 ways of doing it?
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