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Old 09-15-2008, 11:26 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If you only knew

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Originally Posted by Zedd View Post
So sad that such a good looking 240D has to be so horribly abused with waste fryer junk.
ZED you are off your rocker!!! I have a 300D Turbo that I converted 4 years and OVER 90,000 miles ago. I have had the car inspected by a certified mercedes diesel mechanic about 7 months ago and there has been no adverse effect on the engine what so ever. The Rudolf Diesel deigned his engine to run on peanut oil ...

my car has no loss of compression, no clocking in the cylinders, no signs of anything out of the ordinary ... as long as both the oil and the engine are properly brought up to temp (at least 160 *F) prior to switching to WVO you will have no problems ... perhaps you should educate yourself before you go putting down a great resource ... but then again if you bad mouth it and convince just 1 person not to convert their rig that leaves more WVO for me ...

I'm going to guess that you support King George II and McPalin too ...
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by durado View Post
The Rudolf Diesel deigned his engine to run on peanut oil ...
Excuse me, I never saw a Mercedes star on his engine. Dr. Diesel DIED 30 years before MB ever designed THEIR first engine. As much as you fad followers like to claim that, his engine has absolutely ZERO relation to Mercedes' engines. The only traits they have in common are a reciprocating piston and compression-autoignition of the fuel. Mercedes did not design their engines to burn VO.

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perhaps you should educate yourself before you go putting down a great resource
I'm sorry, its clear based on the above post that you need to be educated on many different subjects.

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I'm going to guess that you support King George II and McPalin too
Leave your mindless gibberish for OD where it belongs.
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Its a bad thing. Waste Fryer Junk has much lower cetane which means it takes longer to ignite and it burns slower than Diesel. That has the affect of retarding ignition timing, making it sound quieter.

Mutton cloth is not good. The Waste Fryer Junk needs to be filtered down to at least 5 microns multiple times. The finer you filter before pouring it into your car, the longer it's already reduced lifespan will be.

16 miles of abuse is not too late to turn back! The oil will coke your injectors and combustion chambers with a nasty plastic like gunk, it will contaminate and dilute your oil with unburnt fuel, your injection pump will be varnished from the glycerol in the fuel, emissions are higher due to poor (incomplete) combustion and engine life is drastically shortened by all of that.

If you want to do it right and not harm your engine, buy a BioDiesel processor and turn the Waste Fryer Junk into clean, safe and legal BioDiesel.
Again ZED does not know what he is talking about ... all problems I've ever seen with WVO result from a SINGLE tank system ... if your plant drive is a single tank I would TAKE IT OUT and get a frybrid or greasecar kit ... the WVO does not play well with steal (which the MB fuel tank is made of) both of the other kits have a HEATED aluminum tank ... and the WVO is too thick when cold and will cause problems ... but if heated properly the viscosity will go down making WVO a suitable fuel

Your car runs quieter b/c WVO has less available energy than diesel fuel ... this does not make it bad for the car, just a less violent explosion when the fuel auto-ignites ... you will have less power (not noticeable but less) running on WVO and your fuel economy will go down by 1 - 3 mpg ... but if your fuel is free it doesn't matter ... it still burns cleaner, is getting rid of a waste product and will not harm your engine ...

feel free to pm me and I can answer any questions you may have ... I've researched this topic for the past 6 years, have been running WVO for the past 4 years (yes I did 2 years of solid research before attempting to convert my car) I have a masters in mechanical engineering and have been working on cars my entire life (granted I'm only 35 ... that's still 20 years under hoods) ...

If done PROPERLY WVO will NOT harm you engine at all ... further the w123's are some of the BEST cars to convert ...

but he ZED if you want to pay $4.50/ gal feel free ... as for me I'll drive on free fuel ...
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durado View Post
Again ZEDD does not know what he is talking about ... all problems I've ever seen with WVO result from a SINGLE tank systems
Once AGAIN, you prove your ignorance. The tank type matters not one single bit, although single tank systems should NEVER be used anyways. The most important factor is the operator. You can have the best two-tank system on earth and still kill an engine with cr@ppy fuel poorly selected and/or filtered.

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Your car runs quieter b/c WVO has less available energy than diesel fuel
Thats only part of it. There are incombustible and incomplete burning compounds (what makes the black gunk on the rings and contaminates the oil) and it burns slower.

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... this does not make it bad for the car, just a less violent explosion when the fuel auto-ignites
Retarded timing never hurts but it means the engine will not run as well as designed.

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but if your fuel is free it doesn't matter ... it still burns cleaner, is getting rid of a waste product and will harm your engine ...
Its illegal, its hazardous waste, its messy, it ruins an otherwise good car and it burns dirty (Which is what you smell from the exhaust).

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I have a masters in mechanical engineering
That does not matter. I've seen people with masters that are complete fools. Perfect example: YouTube - Cheap Fuel, Great Fuel Economy
That guy claims to have a masters as well yet he thinks his 300SD is capable of 50MPG.

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but he ZEDD if you want to pay $4.50/ gal feel free ... as for me I'll drive on free fuel
And I'll continue to drive legally using a clean fuel and support the maintenance of the roads I'm entitled to drive on. You, have no right at all to drive on our roads while using an illegal fuel and not paying your due fuel taxes.

Actual BioDiesel is always the best option.

Last edited by Zedd; 09-15-2008 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Wait a minute. Illegal?

You can have your debate about the merits/problems of WVO versus Petroleum based Diesel, but don't call it illegal. You have EVERY right to run fuel you make in your vehicle. No state road tax can take that away.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You're supposed to be paying your road tax which gets tacked onto each gallon of gas, but if they really want to get nit-picky, the government owes us a refund for all of the gas we've bought but used for off road purposes like lawn mowers, etc. The lost taxes really aren't that big of an issue to deal with.

I believe that some states want you to claim how many miles you've traveled on untaxed fuel, but I have never heard of a case where the state has billed a citizen for it.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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So in summary single tank is BAD.

Not heating oil before burning BAD.

So frans-c system is a BAD system. correct?

O.K. so how does frans-c modify the current system to work properly? Can he modify it so it's a two tank system which heats the veggie oil (which is best peanut, canola, or soy?).

I would think all he has to do is add a WVO tank (non heated) a 165 degree temperature sensor switch inline with a switching valve for diesel and WVO. The valve being set to diesel in the non-powered condition. The temperature switch preventing switching until oil temp reaches 165 degrees and automactically switching back to diesel if temp falls below 165 degrees by opening the circuit.
And a separated driver switch to cut power to valve switch so car can run on diesel before cuting off.

Of course he would need WVO pump and lines

Do MB diesels have a return line? If so that would need to be switch also to correct tank return.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Most of that is covering with a Greasecar kit. They also have a purge switch so that your lines are again filled with Diesel before you stop. Single tank systems are junk anywhere outside of Death Valley.

Back to the legality question. If I were to get pulled over and charged with non-payment of road tax, do you really think there is a judge in his right mind who would carry out a judgement that said "hey, I see your doing something that severs your ties to big oil and also is good for the environment, but I'm sorry sir, Mr. and Mrs. SUV will complain if you aren't paying your fair share."

Bull biscuits.

That would only openly show how dedicated they are to Big Oil. Some police officers carry dip tubes to make sure your not running fuel oil in your tank (red dye) that I can see....but if you make it yourself it should be out of the question.

And there are some states where it is completely legal. Most states just look the other way.
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Old 09-15-2008, 05:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Sometimes local police and judges don't try to make a political statement as much as just get the money for the ticket.

I read an account of the police harassing one guy at a sports event who had "Vegetable Oil Powered" stickers on the back of his car. He was appartently being loud and annoying the police so they leaned on him and wrote all kinds of tickets for untaxed fuel useage. I don't know if he fought them in court, or whatever became of it, but I know that in some states, some cops might give you trouble - if they feel like it.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amccune View Post
Wait a minute. Illegal?

You can have your debate about the merits/problems of WVO versus Petroleum based Diesel, but don't call it illegal. You have EVERY right to run fuel you make in your vehicle. No state road tax can take that away.
Sorry to break reality to you, but it IS illegal. Raw and waste vegetable oil are not legal to use on public roads as a fuel unless it has been converted to actual BioDiesel. Tax is only half of it and most states have methods of paying the due taxes, the EPA says you cannot use raw or waste vegetable oil no matter what because no vehicles or conversions have been certified for it.

Quote:
the government owes us a refund for all of the gas we've bought but used for off road purposes like lawn mowers, etc.
The government does not owe you a penny if you fail to file the appropriate forms. Yes, there IS a form to get a refund for gas/diesel road tax when the fuel is used off road (Boat/mower/ATV/airplane,etc.)

Quote:
Back to the legality question. If I were to get pulled over and charged with non-payment of road tax, do you really think there is a judge in his right mind who would carry out a judgment that said "hey, I see your doing something that severs your ties to big oil and also is good for the environment, but I'm sorry sir, Mr. and Mrs. SUV will complain if you aren't paying your fair share.
No, he will say "You have failed to pay your required taxes and were caught with X gallons of illegal fuel." BIG fines.

SB 315 (Calderon) Illegal Fuel Blending
Sponsor: ARB
Contact: Chris Reynolds (916) 322-8520
SUMMARY:

This bill will enable the Air Resources Board (ARB) and law enforcement agencies to locate and prosecute motor vehicle fuel “bootleggers” who mix non-fuel products with finished motor vehicle fuels.
...
Penalties
Persons guilty of blending illegal components would be guilty of a felony and subject to a fine of not less than $35,000 or imprisonment of up to one year in county jail, or 18, 24 or 36 months in state prison, or both fine and imprisonment. In addition, a penalty of up to $2 per gallon of non-complying fuel could be assessed.

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That would only openly show how dedicated they are to Big Oil.
No, that would show they are abiding by the law they swore an oath to uphold.

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And there are some states where it is completely legal.
There is no such thing. Until the EPA has approved it as a fuel its not possible to legally use raw or waste vegetable oil unless it has been converted to real BioDiesel.

More resources to read:
http://online.wsj.com/article/S60823DAVIS.html
"Maximum penalties are $32,500 per violation if committed by a manufacturer or dealer or $2,750 per violation if committed by any other person."

http://www.dieselearth.com/notebook/...s-illegal.html
"According the Environmental Protection Agency (the EPA) operating a vehicle with a non-approved fuel delivery system is a violation of Federal regulations."

Last edited by Zedd; 09-15-2008 at 09:39 PM.
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