Ok here it is, Im in the design of a basic turbo kit that will run on a 240d with no internal mods. The turbo i will use will be a k03 kkk turbo which is common turbo for vw 1.9L engines. these turbos peak boost at 12.5psi so i can purchase one and take the wastegate completely off and run un wastegated with no problems. Here is a link to a pictures of one brand new.
Keep in mind that the design should be easily adaptable to 300d non turbos. This would give you a larger customer base if you decide to market and sell the kits.
Jamie
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Aside from oiling the pistons, I believe that turbo is oil cooled, so you need to figure that out too.
You will also need modified exhaust and intake manifolds. For the 5 cylinder, I think you can use turbo manifolds (and the original turbo that fits the manifolds), but not with the 240.
Cheaper and easier to buy a 300D turbo. A lot cheaper and easier.
But if you're really hell bent on ruining a 240, I think there are aftermarket turbo kits specifically designed for this purpose.
Last edited by Gregs300CD : 06-14-2006 at 07:55 AM.
Closing off the wastgate on that turbo would not only damage the turbo, and probably blow your engine; it would attain a lot more than 12.5 psi of boost. It's the wastegate that limits the boost to 12.5 psi. A turbocharger of that size should be able to push about 20-30 psi easily. Keep in mind, the exhaust gasses drive the turbocharger, you have more displacement and more potential energy being released in your diesel engines combustion stroke. This means you will be pushing more exhaust gas through the turbocharger. How do you plan to control the wastegate? Do you intend to use an EGT gauge?
Getting oil to the turbocharger is easy, there's usually a few places on any engine where pressurized oil can be accessed; getting the oil back into the pan will be more difficult.
For all you skeptics, the fact that the 3.0L's pistons are oiled in the turbo engine does not mean that it has to be done in any engine that is going to be turbocharged. That oiling is mostly done to help accomodate the much higher boost pressure pumped into that engine. In all reality, most of the extra engineering that goes into a turbocharged engine is only done for extra assurance; actually most turbocharged engines can take almost twice the boost they are given without modification. I firmly believe that somebody, who knows enough about turbocharging, can turbocharge that 2.4L without putting the engine at risk. The key is to make sure the fuel is properly delivered when boost is present. If the EGT's remain within safe limits, the pistons will not melt.
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Aside from oiling the pistons, I believe that turbo is oil cooled, so you need to figure that out too.
You will also need modified exhaust and intake manifolds. For the 5 cylinder, I think you can use turbo manifolds (and the original turbo that fits the manifolds), but not with the 240.
Cheaper and easier to buy a 300D turbo. A lot cheaper and easier.
But if you're really hell bent on ruining a 240, I think there are aftermarket turbo kits specifically designed for this purpose.
I would have to concur on this matter. Just get a 300D turbo. Even if the power is doubled the power to weight ratio of the car will be just slightly better than a 300D turbo.
And like BHD said every engine but the turbo OM617 motors don't have the oil cooled pistons. Sure it will run but for how long....
I personally wouldn't bother doing anything but buy the 300DT, it's just too much trouble for a car that's not ever going to be a hotrod (barring the extreme engine builds that we've seen). However, there are turbo kits available for these cars that do the job without damaging the engine. If it's done right and you're not trying to pump exhorborant ammounts of air into the engine, it'll still run a long time. I think for some people, it's all about trying something that's not done very often, getting that sense of satisfaction of taking something and making more out of it. Anybody can put a different engine in a car, people with less intelligence than trained monkeys have been doing it for longer than any of us have been around; but how many people can do something to their engine that's not an open the box and screw it on modification...there's something to be said for ingenuity and innovation. People used to say "you can't put a Honda VTEC head on a standard block, it'll never work; you'll blow the engine." Then sombody tried it and found that it does work and creates insane ammounts of power (200 HP @8000 rpm and 200 ft/lbs @2000 rpm to be exact). Now kids all over the world are doing it and making hot rods out of small four cylinder engines. Some of them are putting turbochargers on those engines and putting muscle cars to shame; and some of them are pumping over 25 psi into these engines. A lot of people would still say that it's impossible to get 500 or even 1000 HP out of a small displacement 4 cylinder engine, but it's been done and was done before a lot of us were born. Dont everybody be so certain that something can't be done just becuase the one engine that has it has an added safety precaution, people have been doing things to engines that others thought were impossible for a long time. Case International got over 800HP out of a 1.6L NA rotary engine, had rotary engines running with compression ignition, and who know's what else. The fact is, any engine can be turbocharged without shortening the service life; it just has to be done right and tuned properly. Sure, extra precautions can be taken to be certain that a failure won't occur, but a lot of the things we think are done to keep an engine from blowing up are acutally done to reduce emissions or increase power output. The oil spray on the pistons of the OM617, for all we know, is probably only done to allow for a few extra pounds of boost, or to lower the chances of a melted piston from 1:100 to 1:5000; or maybe just in case the ALDA or overboost protection fails.
Closing off the wastgate on that turbo would not only damage the turbo, and probably blow your engine; it would attain a lot more than 12.5 psi of boost. It's the wastegate that limits the boost to 12.5 psi. A turbocharger of that size should be able to push about 20-30 psi easily. Keep in mind, the exhaust gasses drive the turbocharger, you have more displacement and more potential energy being released in your diesel engines combustion stroke. This means you will be pushing more exhaust gas through the turbocharger. How do you plan to control the wastegate? Do you intend to use an EGT gauge?
Getting oil to the turbocharger is easy, there's usually a few places on any engine where pressurized oil can be accessed; getting the oil back into the pan will be more difficult.
For all you skeptics, the fact that the 3.0L's pistons are oiled in the turbo engine does not mean that it has to be done in any engine that is going to be turbocharged. That oiling is mostly done to help accomodate the much higher boost pressure pumped into that engine. In all reality, most of the extra engineering that goes into a turbocharged engine is only done for extra assurance; actually most turbocharged engines can take almost twice the boost they are given without modification. I firmly believe that somebody, who knows enough about turbocharging, can turbocharge that 2.4L without putting the engine at risk. The key is to make sure the fuel is properly delivered when boost is present. If the EGT's remain within safe limits, the pistons will not melt.
your wrong on that part a small a/r k04 kkk turbo looses its boost ability pass 12.5psi. I dont think one that has a few thousand miles will even spool that high. Plus im going to include an external wastegate to prevent hydraulic spin preassure.
Closing off the wastgate on that turbo would not only damage the turbo, and probably blow your engine; it would attain a lot more than 12.5 psi of boost. It's the wastegate that limits the boost to 12.5 psi. A turbocharger of that size should be able to push about 20-30 psi easily. Keep in mind, the exhaust gasses drive the turbocharger, you have more displacement and more potential energy being released in your diesel engines combustion stroke. This means you will be pushing more exhaust gas through the turbocharger. How do you plan to control the wastegate? Do you intend to use an EGT gauge?
Getting oil to the turbocharger is easy, there's usually a few places on any engine where pressurized oil can be accessed; getting the oil back into the pan will be more difficult.
For all you skeptics, the fact that the 3.0L's pistons are oiled in the turbo engine does not mean that it has to be done in any engine that is going to be turbocharged. That oiling is mostly done to help accomodate the much higher boost pressure pumped into that engine. In all reality, most of the extra engineering that goes into a turbocharged engine is only done for extra assurance; actually most turbocharged engines can take almost twice the boost they are given without modification. I firmly believe that somebody, who knows enough about turbocharging, can turbocharge that 2.4L without putting the engine at risk. The key is to make sure the fuel is properly delivered when boost is present. If the EGT's remain within safe limits, the pistons will not melt.
The Book by Turbonetics called HomeMade Turbo's is a book that breaks down everything you will ever need to know about turbos and designing a kit. Also when you break it down to a mechanical aspect an engine that is mildly turbo will outlast a engine that is extremely turbo'd. But at the same time an engine that is N/A will not last as long as the same engine built with an Turbo. Its been prooven over and over that the turbo availability to push more air into the engine when under aggressive load conditions will use less work to get up to the same speed compared to an non turbo engine trying to get to the same speed under the same amount of load. Also the main thing about turbo's and diesel engines is the EGT of the turbo manifold. If you can control the fuel mixture to keep the EGT low then the engine will be very happy. Its like my Dodge truck when i originally put twin turbos on the truck if i did anything more then half throttle the engine EGT would sky rocket beyond safe limits. I then put larger fuel injector nozzles in the truck, advance the timing a little and push more fuel in the engine and now the truck runs cooler then it did with the stock turbo and stock fuel system.
I personally wouldn't bother doing anything but buy the 300DT, it's just too much trouble for a car that's not ever going to be a hotrod (barring the extreme engine builds that we've seen). However, there are turbo kits available for these cars that do the job without damaging the engine. If it's done right and you're not trying to pump exhorborant ammounts of air into the engine, it'll still run a long time. I think for some people, it's all about trying something that's not done very often, getting that sense of satisfaction of taking something and making more out of it. Anybody can put a different engine in a car, people with less intelligence than trained monkeys have been doing it for longer than any of us have been around; but how many people can do something to their engine that's not an open the box and screw it on modification...there's something to be said for ingenuity and innovation. People used to say "you can't put a Honda VTEC head on a standard block, it'll never work; you'll blow the engine." Then sombody tried it and found that it does work and creates insane ammounts of power (200 HP @8000 rpm and 200 ft/lbs @2000 rpm to be exact). Now kids all over the world are doing it and making hot rods out of small four cylinder engines. Some of them are putting turbochargers on those engines and putting muscle cars to shame; and some of them are pumping over 25 psi into these engines. A lot of people would still say that it's impossible to get 500 or even 1000 HP out of a small displacement 4 cylinder engine, but it's been done and was done before a lot of us were born. Dont everybody be so certain that something can't be done just becuase the one engine that has it has an added safety precaution, people have been doing things to engines that others thought were impossible for a long time. Case International got over 800HP out of a 1.6L NA rotary engine, had rotary engines running with compression ignition, and who know's what else. The fact is, any engine can be turbocharged without shortening the service life; it just has to be done right and tuned properly. Sure, extra precautions can be taken to be certain that a failure won't occur, but a lot of the things we think are done to keep an engine from blowing up are acutally done to reduce emissions or increase power output. The oil spray on the pistons of the OM617, for all we know, is probably only done to allow for a few extra pounds of boost, or to lower the chances of a melted piston from 1:100 to 1:5000; or maybe just in case the ALDA or overboost protection fails.
You may want to do further research into this Vtech hybrid you are reffering to.
www.honda-tech.com is an excellent place to start your search. I've been a member there for over 6 years an am intimately familiar with the Vtec engine. Having built a 200hp 1.6liter Vtech engine (1990 JDM SiR) that is NOT turbocharged. And yes its had a lot of work done to it.
Its known as a LS-VTEC and its a grenade on a short fuse. Bore / stroke ratio is bad and will be short lived without a lot of additional work. And thats WITHOUT a turbo. It is not a B18C5 which has a different Bore / stroke ratio that can rev and live. THe 1.8 LS non VTEC is a long stroke engine...the B18C5 is a short stroke engine.
Many diesels will not live with a turbo....for long anyway. The NA OM352 is another example, Turbo it and you can guarantee a meltdown. THere are a lot of internal mods needed for these to live turbocharged. Just because you CAN put a turbo on it doesn't mean you SHOULD.
You won't be venturing on some terrirtory that hasn't been traversed many times. Benz has been building factory Turbo OM617 engines since 1978 and there are more than a few differences for a very good reason.
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