Mercedes Adventures: The Search for the Cherry Diesel - Page 24 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #231 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 07:40 AM
w108,107 Parts Hoarder
 
Fonzi's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2010
Vehicle: 4Keep:450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG 2sell:500sl92 380se83 300se86 350sl4sp 75slc MorInSig
Location: Philadelphia Area
Posts: 18,754
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Quoted: 1622 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Garage
Mercedes Adventures: The Search for the Cherry Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercedes Lover View Post
If you have nothing nice to say please refrain. I want your honest opinion, I am being up front with you all. Based on everything I just described is it worth restoring this 240D or would you recommend I sell it and go look for a better example once again?

"Restoring"? No.
"Refurbishing?", probably
"Driving?" Yes. Don't forget to enjoy the car as long as it is safe and reliable.

- make it stop
- make it go
- make it nice

Now for my typically way-too-long post...


RUST:
I am not seeing anything major that the 240d needs here. There is a huge difference between surface rust and rot. With the trunk setup, I recommend starting with a wire brush on a drill and slowly attack the rust and hope that you don't find any rust through. You want to get the loose stuff out of the way so you can then treat the rust with cleaning elements like POR-15's marine clean and phosphoric acid treatment before encapsulating it all in the rock hard POR-15 primer. It may be worth looking hard under the vehicle and maybe removing the gas tank to assure you don't have any rust through or rot. Because if you do, you will want to treat the underside too, and probably add some fiberglass to your POR-15 treatment. I can't imagine that you will end up with anything more than pinholes in there. But you know this northern car better than any of us on the forum. The fear with rust is that you only found the tip of the iceberg and there is more somewhere else. As long as this is isolated, it is definitely worth stopping the rust in its tracks and making this a 100% rust free car. If it's got rust elsewhere and you just want to get a few years or another decade out of it, then "screw it", and drive and enjoy. Trunk and floor rust normally becomes a problem when water or exhaust fumes start coming up from below.

When I look at the picture, I can't see anything more than superficial surface rust. Just make sure you eliminate the source of the water getting into the trunk. Keep the seal clean, and check around the tail lights.

As for everything else, it sounds like routine maintenance that every car will require. It will cost thousands for you to pay a mechanic to do these things, but with the right tools and plenty of time, you can fix all these on your own fairly cheaply. Keep in mind that unless a car comes with records of these jobs being done, every w114/115 or r/c107 with this style suspension is going to need these subframe and control arm bushings. If you don't replace them the ride is going to be bumpy and loud. When you replace them, the shocks and anything else like the control arm ball joints and steering components, you get a car that drives almost like new. I redid the entire front end and rear shocks on my 1973 450sl for about $1700, which was a friends and family rate on the labor and parts at cost at my mechanic. The whole front subframe (read "axle") came off the car, which was not something I planned for on my $4700 car, but I don't regret it. The ride was so vastly improved. Just next time, I will do it myself.

I know this post is ridiculously long, but there's one more piece of information I need to add.

The subframe lesson I learned on the above car made me realize, that ANY old car is going to need a LOT of work in time. Even if the work was done 1000 miles ago, but 10-20 years ago, the rubber is going to need to be replaced. Rubber ages with time, and these MB have a lot of rubber. So even though you might treat a car like a trailer queen, it will still need all the same work as a driver in time. They ALL need the work if not recently done, tens of thousands of dollars of work over time.

Why dump all that work and money into a car that will never be worth much of anything (like my first MB, a reconstructed title absolutely beautiful 68,000 mile 1973 450sl)? If I'm going to do all this work to a car, it might as well be one that is going to be special and worth a significant amount down the road. That was my philosophy, which lead to my search for something other than my first mb. After five years, I feel I have two special cars that I got for $8000 (450slc 5.0 custom conv.) and $4200 (280sl 5-speed), both needing significant work, which is fine. I know they all need the same work in time. They were both great deals IMO, and I was very lucky to find any good or desirable cars in those low-ends of the pricing ballpark. You are rarely going to find an amazing car for less than a single paycheck of many collectors.

You have some low-dollar fun there. Enjoy. Do what you want with them.
Shakedown Street likes this.

.

My signature:
Click for list of my 32 MB since 2010. If, you want 70's-80's Mercedes tuner wheels, let me know.

Last edited by Fonzi; 07-23-2015 at 07:45 AM.
Fonzi is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #232 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Shakedown Street's Avatar
 
Date registered: Feb 2015
Vehicle: 74' 240D, 75' 300D
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
I get what you mean. Yeah, honestly I don't need a show car, just a fun car to drive every day with my low budget. I should come to the realization that your not going to find a cherry for under $3K.

Now here's what I could do. I have the 300D still with absolutely no rust (except that one fender) and less mechanical problems (assuming). I could take the interior out of the 240D, put it in the 300D. With the paint being in better condition I could Take all the doors, fenders, and hoods off the 240D and put em on the 300D. I have to ask myself do I want a car I can drive now, or take the time to refurbish the 300D?

The 300D is un-drivable at this point due to a few minor mechanical problems so I think. The reason I would want to save it is the engines been rebuilt, the owner telling me everything he's replaced. The former 240D owner informed me yesterday they haven't touched the engine. Plus the miles are documented on the 300D.

So basically I'd have to learn how to align fenders and doors. Already have a good idea on how to take them off. It's putting them back on and recconecting all the vacuum lines that worries me.

What's worse in your eyes the mechanical problems of the 240D or body and interior problems of the 300D? The 300D has one rusty fender, one fender with a dent in it, hood has a huge scratch across the entire thing, paint is faded, seats are ripped up, headliners ripped, windshield cracked.

Call me Ben! Formally "Mercedes Lover"

Last edited by Shakedown Street; 07-23-2015 at 07:46 PM.
Shakedown Street is offline  
post #233 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Shakedown Street's Avatar
 
Date registered: Feb 2015
Vehicle: 74' 240D, 75' 300D
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
which one do you feel would last longer. A rebuilt engine with 300K to it with a solid no rust body or a 200K W115 with minor rust and orginal engine?

Call me Ben! Formally "Mercedes Lover"
Shakedown Street is offline  
post #234 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 09:59 PM
w108,107 Parts Hoarder
 
Fonzi's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2010
Vehicle: 4Keep:450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG 2sell:500sl92 380se83 300se86 350sl4sp 75slc MorInSig
Location: Philadelphia Area
Posts: 18,754
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Quoted: 1622 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercedes Lover View Post
which one do you feel would last longer. A rebuilt engine with 300K to it with a solid no rust body or a 200K W115 with minor rust and orginal engine?

There's no telling.

I have a windshield in my garage if love to get rid of.

I don't understand why you want to take all the doors and hood off one car and put it on another. It sounds like you simply have two cars. Slap some seat covers on the 300d and enjoy. Just cut the rust off that rear fender, and when you get around to it, weld on the patch panel.

You are probably going to want to sell one of these two cars, passing it down the line to someone who can put the effort into it and enjoy it.

.

My signature:
Click for list of my 32 MB since 2010. If, you want 70's-80's Mercedes tuner wheels, let me know.
Fonzi is offline  
post #235 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Shakedown Street's Avatar
 
Date registered: Feb 2015
Vehicle: 74' 240D, 75' 300D
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
You get what I'm trying to do here though right? Don't really have the room for two cars so one unfortunately has to go. The only reason I suggested putting all the 240D parts on my 300D is merely for the looks. I love the condition of the paint on the 240D. Changing doors and fenders and seats isn't too too bad of a job, time consuming yes. I could then put the 300D seats and body on the 240D. Then I get the unfaded paint with less scratches, a rust free body, and a great interior. Then I sell the 240D.

I totally like the 300D better the way it drives and all. I bought the 240D just because I wanted a W115 that can already be road driven and I have been driving it for the past 3 weeks. I was willing to sarifice acceleration for an unmutilated inerior and flawless paint. Well that and a new football sized dent on my 300D right front fender (long story). If I didn't find the trunk rust yesterday I wouldn't even be considering swapping parts. I just feel at the end of the day I'd be happier with the 300D. That's also assuming the 300D is in better mechanical condition, from my inspection it seems it.

Checked underneath the 240D as well. Seems that there is some unibody rust starting to form close to where the trunk is. Rust is the only thing that scares me from putting all this money into it.

I think I need to slow down and really think about this for a few weeks before I make any drastic decisions.

Call me Ben! Formally "Mercedes Lover"

Last edited by Shakedown Street; 07-24-2015 at 01:35 AM.
Shakedown Street is offline  
post #236 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 05:47 AM
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
drew56cus's Avatar
 
Date registered: Oct 2006
Vehicle: 1965 220SE sedan (finnie) with 450SE conversion, 1964 220SE coupe project, 1966 300SE coupe
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Have you taken the 300D to the same mechanic you got to look at the 240D? I wonder if his experienced eyes would spot more issues to give a fair comparison.
Swapping interiors is easy. I have not changed a fender on a 114, but I know on a 123 it can be hard as they put some sort of sealant between the panels - I wrecked one panel getting it off. Any advice there Fonzi?
That trunk rust needs a wire brush as the guys have said before making big decisions based on that. The potential frame rot needs toe be investigated though - but fixing a little bit of that may be easier than an exterior panel, as nice paint finish is not required under the car - so easier for a learner.
I think you should not be letting the potential costs beyond the next 50,0000miles come into it, as I dare say you would have moved onto another car by then. Few people still have their first car, and if they do, they often get parked up for a decade before having a renaissance when the person is finished having a career and kids. So don't kid yourself. Think about the money and time you are willing to invest now, and be realistic, otherwise fixing the car will consume your life and become a drag.
Cheers, Drew
PS - I will stop typing as I don't want flyboy to troll on into another thread and bring it down.
Shakedown Street likes this.
drew56cus is offline  
post #237 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 06:55 AM
BenzWorld Veteran
 
Date registered: Aug 2009
Vehicle: '72 250C, '74 280C, '85 500SEL, '81 300CD.
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 678
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by drew56cus View Post
I have not changed a fender on a 114, but I know on a 123 it can be hard as they put some sort of sealant between the panels - I wrecked one panel getting it off. Any advice there Fonzi?

Use a heat gun along the seams to soften the sealer. Easy-peasy.
Mike D is online now  
post #238 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Shakedown Street's Avatar
 
Date registered: Feb 2015
Vehicle: 74' 240D, 75' 300D
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by drew56cus View Post
Have you taken the 300D to the same mechanic you got to look at the 240D? I wonder if his experienced eyes would spot more issues to give a fair comparison.
Swapping interiors is easy. I have not changed a fender on a 114, but I know on a 123 it can be hard as they put some sort of sealant between the panels - I wrecked one panel getting it off. Any advice there Fonzi?
That trunk rust needs a wire brush as the guys have said before making big decisions based on that. The potential frame rot needs toe be investigated though - but fixing a little bit of that may be easier than an exterior panel, as nice paint finish is not required under the car - so easier for a learner.
I think you should not be letting the potential costs beyond the next 50,0000miles come into it, as I dare say you would have moved onto another car by then. Few people still have their first car, and if they do, they often get parked up for a decade before having a renaissance when the person is finished having a career and kids. So don't kid yourself. Think about the money and time you are willing to invest now, and be realistic, otherwise fixing the car will consume your life and become a drag.
Cheers, Drew
PS - I will stop typing as I don't want flyboy to troll on into another thread and bring it down.
Thanks Drew, right drive it till it dies. By then surely I will have moved on to the next. Body work is a whole different ballgame from mechanical work. I'll get a closer look at the rust see how bad it really is. Whenever I see rust I freak. You just talked me out of doing something really stupid.

Call me Ben! Formally "Mercedes Lover"

Last edited by Shakedown Street; 07-24-2015 at 11:59 AM.
Shakedown Street is offline  
post #239 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 12:30 PM
BenzWorld Veteran
 
ollo's Avatar
 
Date registered: May 2009
Vehicle: S430 93K; E420 243K; 240D 242K
Location: Near Sublimity, Orygun
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Garage
Before you decide, pay a tech to assess the 300D, particularly its rubber parts and the engine condition. Tell them what you are thinking of doing and get their opinion of the practicality of swapping all those parts from 1 car to the other vs just keeping and driving the best one as is.

I don't recall if you mentioned how many miles are on the 300D's engine since it was "rebuilt", but just remember, the Greek taxi that achieved 2.8 million miles was rotating through 3 engines with a total of 11 overhauls to get there.

OM116/OM117 engines have reached three, four or maybe five hundred thousand miles with just thorough maintenance and careful driving, but it's not the norm and there is more to a car than just the engine. Don

John 5:25

Last edited by ollo; 07-24-2015 at 12:38 PM.
ollo is offline  
post #240 of 285 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 01:28 PM
Cruise Control
 
Zeitgeist's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: '87 300TD/'90 300D/'94 Quattro/'89 Vanagon TDI/'01 EV Weekender VR6
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 51,730
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 1426 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Use a heat gun along the seams to soften the sealer. Easy-peasy.
That was not my experience with an early 123 fender. I tried heat gun, propane torch, and finally my oxy/ace torch, but still ended up tweaking the right front fender removal. I think MB stopped gluing them on the later 123s, and I know they didn't on the 124, which come off in a matter of less than ten minutes once the bumper cover is off.
Zeitgeist is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Vintage Mercedes-Benz

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome