Daily driver m130? 1969 280se or 1972 250c - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 07:34 PM
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I like the 108 a lot on aesthetic grounds but would have to vote for the newer, simpler car for a daily driver on practical grounds. FWIW, the Bosch FI on my 111 never gave a moment's trouble. No experience with the Zenith carbs.

This is a nice photo

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Fonzi View Post
So I don't hear anyone praising the Bosch Fuel injection if the 280se m130. Is it not that good? Just as problematic as a dual zenith?
The mechanical fuel injection used in Mercedes during that time period is good as long as the pump is in good order. If it isn't, fixing is $1500+. I have nothing against Bosch FI but I also never had the Zenith problems that others have spoken of.

I wouldn't base your choice on either of the engines so much as which CAR drives better. I would base more on the tightness of the front suspension, condition of the rubber, etc.

I drove a number of 250 C cars prior to buying one, and I've driven and had a number of W108 sedans. My preference from my own experience is an earlier (with earlier interior and trim and stuff) 250C.

If I were to ever buy another W108 sedan I would want the LWB version since it sets it apart from the other cars in terms of comfort.

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
Past: 1971 250 C, 1985 300 TD, 1967 250 S, 1968 280 S,1981 300 D, 1982 280CE, 3 Facel Vegas, Borgward Isabella Coupe, Alfa 2600 Sprint, Volvo P1900 (yes), numerous less interesting Volvos, ...
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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Good points everyone.

I own two 250c that I have yet to drive.

I'm not sure if you know that I'm already in bed with two w114. I just sold my only (somewhat) roadworthy w114 on Sunday, my white rusty sedan. My first drive in it in a long time was to drop it off for "storage" at the house of a w114 enthusiast on a Friday. He called wanting to give me a check for the title to the car on Sunday. So I'm down (from 3 w114) to the two w114 coupes:
- 1970 114023-12-000169 MBTex blue w chrome floor shifter automatic, cracked dash, fear end damage parts car that's loaded w "new" parts.
Daily driver m130? 1969 280se or 1972 250c-imageuploadedbyautoguide1413946750.410958.jpg
Daily driver m130? 1969 280se or 1972 250c-imageuploadedbyautoguide1413946771.319155.jpg
Daily driver m130? 1969 280se or 1972 250c-imageuploadedbyautoguide1413946860.264765.jpg


- 1972 114.023-12-008664 - a single owner back body, white top, white leather, sunroof, column shift automatic, crack free dash, white steering wheel, restored to original the 90's... It might be a little more work than the blue coupe, but the one to restore.
Daily driver m130? 1969 280se or 1972 250c-imageuploadedbyautoguide1413946929.426826.jpg
Daily driver m130? 1969 280se or 1972 250c-imageuploadedbyautoguide1413946967.047575.jpg
Daily driver m130? 1969 280se or 1972 250c-imageuploadedbyautoguide1413947009.932631.jpg


Thursday night I had stopped in to take a look at the first w108 I had ever looked at in person. Overall lack if rust and condition of the interior were selling points for te car. The valve cover was a little warm, and the guy knew I was coming. But the car ran (in the driveway) really well. I guess I could be suspicious about the fact that they didn't have the driveway cleared of construction trucks to let me drive it, but I got the sense that the car possibly wasn't insured, and the guy is only selling because his wife says it is time to clean up. I got tree after dark too, and told him I'm not really too serious, and upon leaving I told him I would do my research. Monday he offered me the car for nearly 20% less than Thursday, and I never even tossed out any numbers or offers.

As it's taking me so much time to even get my w114 coupes into the garage to work on them, I considered dumping both and switching to the w108. However, I think it makes more sense to at least get those two coupes running. They run well with fuel in the carb, but both have fuel delivery issues. I need to spend a day or so cleaning fuel tanks and fuel lines. Then I will be able to at least form an opinion about these carbed 250c cars.

So, it seems that injection is good, but not a decision factor when deciding between a w114 or w108.

Maybe this will help. I think the d-jet 4.5 is a pig on gas. I've owned three 1972-1973 450sl, and after the first, I knew I couldn't justify driving the car for work or many long distance trips. 12 mpg is just ridiculous for a two seater. I know I'm not buying a 280se 4.5 for that reason.

However, the rear diff ratio for the 1969 280se is a little ridiculous too, a 3.92 I believe. That's no highway cruiser. Perhaps the 3.07 differential from 280se 4.5 could be used to make the m130 a little more reasonable, but slower of course.

Anyway, I've definitely decided to take this slow and not just jump on the w108. I appreciate the style. Maybe my wife would too, but right now, I've got too many cars. Dumping the two 250c in a swap for the w108 doesn't sound terrible in that respect. I also need to dump a 1973 450sl also, plus haul the 1972 450sl scrap car to the metal recycler any day now.

.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-21-2014, 09:25 PM
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If the engines run using a gas can near the fuel pump (and return line) then I would spend the time to clean the gas tank and fuel lines and get it running so you can drive it. You really can't make the decision without driving the car as I think there is much more cost involved and repair involved than just the carbs vs. fuel injection.

I agree that the 4.5 is even more of a gas pig. And lots of people want the rear end from a 4.5 to put in a W113 or other car. The 6 cylinder cars are fine at high RPMs which is what the stock rear end is going to require (high RPM to go fast on freeway) but the engine doesn't seem to mind that at all.

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
Past: 1971 250 C, 1985 300 TD, 1967 250 S, 1968 280 S,1981 300 D, 1982 280CE, 3 Facel Vegas, Borgward Isabella Coupe, Alfa 2600 Sprint, Volvo P1900 (yes), numerous less interesting Volvos, ...
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 06:28 AM Thread Starter
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Ok. Well then maybe the differential is a point for the 250c then. I think it's rear diff is around 3.69 instead of 3.92 which the 1969 280se should have based on automobile-catalog.com specs.

Wikipedia says the 280se (injected) and 280s (carbed) m130 cars would get 27mpg imp and 22 mpg US. If I knew better I would add a correction to the Wikipedia page, because that seems impossible based on what I've read in this thread. See the "technical info" section of the Wikipedia page: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W108

.

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 08:57 AM
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Gas mileage - I think my 250 C got 15 mpg in the city and maybe 18 on the highway. My 280S with webers was about the same. My pagoda, about the same. I'm guessing that the rule of thumb is that 6 cylinder gas SOHC Mercedes cars get 15 mpg. And they want premium. If this is an issue, drop a 5 cylinder turbo diesel in the 250 C.

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
Past: 1971 250 C, 1985 300 TD, 1967 250 S, 1968 280 S,1981 300 D, 1982 280CE, 3 Facel Vegas, Borgward Isabella Coupe, Alfa 2600 Sprint, Volvo P1900 (yes), numerous less interesting Volvos, ...
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 06:17 AM Thread Starter
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Daily driver m130? 1969 280se or 1972 250c

I sent a message requesting a test drive on Friday and never heard back. Yesterday I watched the Jay Leno 600 video which rekindled the w108 interest. I messaged the seller of the silver w108, and it is now sold. Maybe saved my marriage. It was listed at $1700 and the seller said he would take $1250. I know where I could have gotten a bumper for $100. (But a mediocre paint job surely would have been $3000 plus my labor or more.) Maybe after I'm done with the w114 cars and other projects I will consider one again.

.

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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-29-2014, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Fonzi View Post
So I don't hear anyone praising the Bosch Fuel injection if the 280se m130. Is it not that good? Just as problematic as a dual zenith?
M130 Mechanical Fuel Injection(MFI)and m129(MFI) are great engines, not problematic at all. Just don't mess with the air/fuel mixture screw or the injection pump knob unless necessary. And remember NOT to adjust the knob behind the injection pump while the car is on.

There is a procedure by Arthur Dalton on how to tune these engines. They purrrrr while on
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-30-2014, 06:06 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xaliscomex View Post
M130 Mechanical Fuel Injection(MFI)and m129(MFI) are great engines, not problematic at all. Just don't mess with the air/fuel mixture screw or the injection pump knob unless necessary. And remember NOT to adjust the knob behind the injection pump while the car is on.



There is a procedure by Arthur Dalton on how to tune these engines. They purrrrr while on

Had anyone provided this feedback earlier, I may have been the owner of a 280se at this point. It seemed like a great car at a great price, but the fact is that it would not have improved my quality of life. Hard for a addict to say that, but obviously true.

.

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-30-2014, 06:24 AM
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Neither one of these cars would have sipped gas. The carbureted models of this era using either the Zeniths or Solex were not known for economy.

I have owned 108s and a 250C, and I would say that they are very different from each other. The 108 is a bit more refined and elegant in my opinion, and the 114 more basic and plebeian.

That being said, my 250C was a blast to drive, even with an automatic. While it struggled to get into the mid teens on gas mileage, neither one of these cars would see MPG values better than that short of running downhill with the engine turned off....

I love the dual Zeniths, and will defend them to the end against their critics. The biggest problem with the Zeniths was people not willing to stick to the setup and adjustment procedures to the letter. Adjustments on Zeniths are progressive, that is, each step builds on the previous one, so you can't just go at them with a screwdriver to the mixture screw and expect them to run properly.

Dan
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