Resurrection of a clean 1975 Mercedes 450 SEL some help please - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TZ_280SEL View Post
The injectors normally fire on 12V, but for convenience, I use a standard 9V battery when I have them removed. It cycles them fine.

There should be one pressure regulator and a pressure dampener. The regulator has 3 fuel line connections (one from each rail and one which is a return to the tank) while the dampener just has an inlet and an outlet. The dampener is not adjustable (that is a mounting bolt) but the nut/bolt on the regulator changes fuel pressure.
thanks again :
Correct I see 3 lines on the " regulator " and 2 on the Dampener . Both have a Adjustment Bolt and a Lock nut on them . looks like some White sealant on the Bolt and nut perhaps to lock it in place ?
so I can fire the injectors testing with 12 Volts .
************************************************** *******
Up Date : Just tested for Voltage on the Injectors at the Plug in point wiring to Injector . All "Cylinders that Car is running on have voltage to the " INJECTORS ( Cylinders 23 pass side and 67 on Drivers side )
the other 4 Injectors have no Voltage . ( Checked with wire disconnected "Motor Running " with volt meter )
Wiring look's good with the exception of the Rubber covers that cover the Injector Wiring hook up point . Hook up has 2 wires inside .
Voltage on running injectors is not very high but they seem to be working
read's 0.19 0.17 one read at 0.70 and so on on a Volt meter.
Question what would that be ?
I am getting Power to only half the Injectors ?
where does this power come from ? perhaps the Computer ?
if so " where is the Computer located " perhaps the connection to the Computer needs cleaning ?
Wiring Look Perfect ! No Broken Wires insulation intact
thanks for your help
all input from anyone Appreciated
I really want to get this one running and am worried if i May lose the starting
ability soon if I keep running it this way and that make it much harder to trace down for me .
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 02:34 PM
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Vehicle: 1972 280SEL daily driver. 904 Dark Blue with cognac interior. euro 4.5 engine
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I have an old W108 chassis. Same injection system and engine, different layout. My "computer" is behind the right headlight bucket. Not sure where they are in the W116 chassis. Is a rectangular box that is about 1.5" thick and perhaps 6-8" square. It has one 25 pin connector into the top of it. Yes, it supplies voltage to the injectors. You are perhaps not reading 12V because the pulse sent to the injectors is 12V but for a very short time. Depends on your meter's response time as to how it will read it. If you can see the colors of the wires to the connectors, the brown should be ground and the hot should be either white, gray, yellow or green depending on which pair of injectors. Hot should go to pins 3,4,5 an 6 on the computer. If your harness is the same as the W108, you should look at pin 3 (cylinders 1 and 5) and pin 4 (cylinder 4 and 8) which should be gray and yellow respectively.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TZ_280SEL View Post
I have an old W108 chassis. Same injection system and engine, different layout. My "computer" is behind the right headlight bucket. Not sure where they are in the W116 chassis. Is a rectangular box that is about 1.5" thick and perhaps 6-8" square. It has one 25 pin connector into the top of it. Yes, it supplies voltage to the injectors. You are perhaps not reading 12V because the pulse sent to the injectors is 12V but for a very short time. Depends on your meter's response time as to how it will read it. If you can see the colors of the wires to the connectors, the brown should be ground and the hot should be either white, gray, yellow or green depending on which pair of injectors. Hot should go to pins 3,4,5 an 6 on the computer. If your harness is the same as the W108, you should look at pin 3 (cylinders 1 and 5) and pin 4 (cylinder 4 and 8) which should be gray and yellow respectively.
Sounds Good : Did you see the Photos I loaded on dial up internet that was interesting about 5 Min's per Photo at 56 K dial up
This part I Like " If your harness is the same as the W108, you should look at pin 3 (cylinders 1 and 5) and pin 4 (cylinder 4 and 8) which should be gray and yellow respectively.
They may indeed be the same ? . I will look for the Computer upon my return . When you say Right Headlight do you mean Drivers side or pass side ? My Guess is you mean the pass side perhaps .
I want to check the voltage out first because perhaps it does not need more then that ?. It is beginning to seem the car has some electrical Issues , this used to freak me out but not anymore . I will use a Brass Brush perhaps I will get one as I am in town just now . Live in the Country this area of northern California . Mendocino Hotels Restaurants Things to Do in Mendocino County CA Many area's of CA have little moisture ad are great for older cars . Car was from Santa Rosa area always Garaged . Photo of " Ignition Control Module " was before Power washing of the area shows the Oil on everything . I suspect a broken Power steering line or pump ? Insulation under hood is also soaked on the Drivers side only.
Upon Motor running I see no oil leak's at all ?
hope I can find the Computer . I suspect their be 2 one under the hood and 1 inside the car .

Thanks so much for your valuable help
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 03:13 PM
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I just looked and my manual says that for the W116 chassis, the computer is inside the car in the right passenger side footwell in the side panel.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TZ_280SEL View Post
I just looked and my manual says that for the W116 chassis, the computer is inside the car in the right passenger side footwell in the side panel.
Thanks That Make's it easy then Footwell inside pass side
Thanks for taking the time to look it up
( Just posted another Post asking where it is but now I don't need that lol )
location is the same exact place as a 1980 928 Porsche i have and in fact the hook up Plug ( about 4 or 5 inches long ) had a lot of Corrosion on many of the hookups that I had to Clean up on that Porsche to make it work . it had say over 15 years and i got it running just great in fact . German motors are far better then the Electrical , Just my opinion
Re the 450 Mercedes 1975 year
I hope that perhaps can be a cure to the Injector firing . I should be able to
check for conductivity from the Injector all the way to the plug unless of a brake in the wire perhaps . I may be able to use a Dremel to clean up the
connections , that has been a help in the past .
All of these German cars have that " Corrosion " on the fuse panel for example > better to use brass or Copper fuses to avoid the Corrosion rather then the cheap aluminum ones .
thanks again perhaps this will be it ?
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Found the Computer That's the problum it seems all Burned up

Quote:
Originally Posted by TZ_280SEL View Post
I just looked and my manual says that for the W116 chassis, the computer is inside the car in the right passenger side footwell in the side panel.
So Located the ECU " Engine Control Unit " removed it and It smells all burned up . Popped the cover and discovered for sure the Unit is bad . I am surprised the motor ran at all ? Cover is all burned looking . Mother board has a Burn trail on the back side . I stopped their
The Unit could be fixed by a expert no doubt ( Talking Bosch most likely )
or ProgRama 800 668 8843 Bosch has a lot of information as to what fits what if you get the right Guy Bosch 1 888 715 3616
try to post some Photos of the burned up unit
BOSCH 0280 002 014 found in MERCEDES =EARLY 116 & 107 BODY
Thanks for the Help to Locate the computer
do you have a spare unit by chance , the same number lol
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 02:13 AM
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Ok, you have a D-jetronic system. Runs great if it runs good, if not itīs just the start of the nightmare.
The sensors and ECU signals are measured in Ohms, you need to check resistance in each and every sensor and injector.

I have somewhere a D-jet checking list, PM me and I will email that one to you, basically you have to measure resistance at:
- Vacuum Sensor, big sensor right side on the chassis, new ones go for 1.300$ if you find them. If your CO is above 7% that one is broken.
- Throttle sensor, turn on contact and push acelerator pedal down, you should hear 20 clicks on the sensor.
- Air temperature sensor, on the air filter housing, not that important.
- Water temperature sensor, not that important too but enriches mixture a little
- Cold start valve sensor, if broken will leave start injector open
- Injectors, check ground conections.

Also, Idle valve front of the engine, above, it works with refrigerant temperature. At normal operating temperature should be closed. If open then your idle will move from 750rpm to 1.250 rpm up and down. ECU open and closes injectors continously.

Pressure on the injectors should be 34psi.

trigger points on the distributor, are underneath the ignition points. 2 screws on the side of the distributor. This opens and closes the injectors, so most probably that one is not working and thatīs why you donīt get your injectors working on one side.

Hope this info helps
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 08:23 AM
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Sorry to see a burnt ECU. I do not have one, but I believe there are several members here that are parting out early D-JET cars. May want a new thread titled looking for D-JET ECU

BTW. I like the color combo on your car. How is the interior?
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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RE:Sorry to see a burnt ECU. I do not have one, but I believe there are several members here that are parting out early D-JET cars. May want a new thread titled looking for D-JET ECU
BTW. I like the color combo on your car. How is the interior?
************************************************** **********
Don't have Photos loaded but the Interior is all most perfect with the exception of some backer sort of board of something at the bottom front of the drivers seat . This is like a piece that go's under the seat material along the front bottom edge of the seat > some sort of edge support ? the seat material is perfect on all the seats , not torn and nice and supple , White in color. Car was always Garaged with only 1 Owner . Then it sat for 6 Years not running as I understand it . The No Spark situation had developed during that time and the car no longer started . The oil Film I discovered ( Missed that when I first looked at the Car ) I Believe came from a oil Leak that was repaired at some point possible from the Power steering Pump / Hoses but not sure on that . Pump Reservoir has about 1 inch of fluid in it so almost empty .
Yes to start a new tread / Post is what I was thinking Also
I understand that Part number ECU ( I see some on the net call it a ICU for " Injection Control Unit " ) Part number BOSCH 0 280 002 014 is also used on the 107 type I believe that may be a 450 SL ? Perhaps You Know that Info ?
********************************
From Net :Mercedes Early 116 107 Body Engin Computer Bosch 0 280 ...
Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles, Coupons and More | eBay › ... › Engine Computers
eBay
Details about MERCEDES =EARLY 116&107 BODY ENGIN COMPUTER BOSCH # 0-280-002-014. MERCEDES =EARLY 116&107 BODY ENGIN COMPUTER ...
************************************************** ********
Thanks again for your help with this 75 MB 450 I hope to find a Injection Control for it
and then we will see it the motor is ok or not for sure .
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Trigger points opens and closes the injectors

Quote:
Originally Posted by javimx5 View Post
Ok, you have a D-jetronic system. Runs great if it runs good, if not itīs just the start of the nightmare.
The sensors and ECU signals are measured in Ohms, you need to check resistance in each and every sensor and injector.

I have somewhere a D-jet checking list, PM me and I will email that one to you, basically you have to measure resistance at:
- Vacuum Sensor, big sensor right side on the chassis, new ones go for 1.300$ if you find them. If your CO is above 7% that one is broken.
- Throttle sensor, turn on contact and push acelerator pedal down, you should hear 20 clicks on the sensor.
- Air temperature sensor, on the air filter housing, not that important.
- Water temperature sensor, not that important too but enriches mixture a little
- Cold start valve sensor, if broken will leave start injector open
- Injectors, check ground conections.

Also, Idle valve front of the engine, above, it works with refrigerant temperature. At normal operating temperature should be closed. If open then your idle will move from 750rpm to 1.250 rpm up and down. ECU open and closes injectors continously.

Pressure on the injectors should be 34psi.

trigger points on the distributor, are underneath the ignition points. 2 screws on the side of the distributor. This opens and closes the injectors, so most probably that one is not working and thatīs why you donīt get your injectors working on one side.

Hope this info helps
Thank Much for reply Very Interesting > Perhaps you did not read all my post and reply's but I will try to load some photos here again of the Burnt
up looking ECU Previously Posted here . I am trying to digest your reply so hope I get it right . I Just looked and Yes farther below the Distributor Plate
( held in by Screws ) I do see some 2 screws in the lower body area of the Distributor . This must be what your talking about related to Trigger points for the Injectors :
*******************
Can you please enplane that in more detail ?
As Posted I have Power to only the center Injectors ( all the Cylinders in the middle of the motor ) Number 2 and 3 ( Pass side ) and 6 and 7
( drivers side )
But your reply post to me states and I Quote
"so most probably that one is not working and thatīs why you donīt get your injectors working on one side."
Now can you Elaborate on that interesting point please Thanks Much :
Because I do get Power to the Injectors on Both Sides but only in the
" middle Cylinders " ( That's what the Engine is running on the middle Cylinders )
So Question's ?
(1) Is it possible that this is the Problem something related to these trigger Points inside the Distributor ?
(2) What exactly is in their some magnetic contacts or ? sending power or triggering information to the ECU that then sends power to the Injectors ?
***
(3) Not sure where the " Vacuum Sensor " is By Right side of the Engine do you mean Drivers side or Pass side Please ?
I think I see the " Throttle sensor,( turn on contact ) " it has a cable that go;s to the throttle Linkage seems to be Vacuum Controlled .
The Car barely Run's at this point so Its hard to test all of those things yet
I was told on this Forum post that the ECU controls the Injectors to Fire
( or send fuel ) to the Cylinders and since I read no Power with motor running to the Injectors on all the end Cylinders ( 1 / 4 Pass side 5/ 8 Driver side ) I pulled the ECU out and discovered is looks all burnt up and smells bad I will post the Photos again here below , please view them.
Note I am a Long Time Mechanic But not a Mercedes Expert so asking for this help thanks much
(4) Question although it seems the ECU has Issues is it possible that these
distributor trigger points could be the cause of the " end Cylinders "not getting power to open the injectors for fuel ?????
I am now thinking perhaps the ECU has Issues but also perhaps these Trigger points I now know of may be the cause of this ??
What do you think ? how do they work and how can I test them ?
I am new to this forum and need to learn how to PM anyone also
Photos show The Burned up look of the ECU case / Also the Mother Board with burn trail one spot . It Smell's very burnt up strong and looks very bad .
Note : to get the Car Running ( on 4 Cyls' ) I finally found from a old oil leak that oil and dirt was the cause of no spark and found after cleaning the area of the Coil / the Wiring to distributor / Resistors / ignition control module / to be the Cause of no spark from the coil . then it started up . Motor is Quite / no smoke / good Compression 155 / 165 all tested after running it 45 min's.
I Did " not " Clean the Distributor Base area but only the Top area perhaps this would be wise . I do see a plug in type connector to the lower part of the distributor running to another plug in up higher then wiring running back along the top of the motor .
This is very good information your giving me to work with thanks much.
I would like the Specks but not sure yet how to PM You here i will look for it .
Regards Aluminum
Anyone got one of these ECU UNITS Bosch 0 280 002 014 a working one
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Last edited by aluminum; 09-20-2014 at 07:11 PM. Reason: spelling
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