!975 W114 280 C Engine Swap/Modernization - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-30-2014, 09:35 PM
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post #62 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-31-2014, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for asking, Fonzi. The day was somewhat frustrating in a way. My son is visiting from Atlanta and we sort of spent most of the day fooling around and then we went out to the shop and unhooked a few more things.

I am having trouble removing the bolt from the driver side engine mount cause it is real tight and I can't get a straight shot at it. I have one more trick to try and then the carb comes of to give me the straight shot (I think).

Carb instruction say "remove the bolts and take carburetor out;" no pics, very helpful. Which bolts? Lug nuts? I mean with all the warning about warping this and warping that, it doesn't seem smart to just start taking arbitrary bolts out because they look like they may be the right ones.

So, where I am, I think, is one more engine mount bolt, rear support and hook up the engine hoist.

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post #63 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-31-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jndaigle View Post
Carb instruction say "remove the bolts and take carburetor out;" no pics, very helpful. Which bolts? Lug nuts? I mean with all the warning about warping this and warping that, it doesn't seem smart to just start taking arbitrary bolts out because they look like they may be the right ones.
This is exactly why "manuals" do me no good at all. I need a "how to". Manuals are written for trained mechanics, I usually don't even understand what they are trying to tell me.
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post #64 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-31-2014, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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RHS Engine mount bolt; how I got it out

Taking the carb off does not result in a straight shot at the engine mounting bolt, but you can see it better.

To set up I removed every hose that I thought could get in the way.

I chatted with Fonzi first to see if he know any miracle cure; no luck, but I think the conversation helped me to come up with the idea. Thanks Fonzi.

To get the RHS engine mount bolt out, I put the box end of a 19 mm combination wrench on the bolt with the open end pointed towards the front of the car. Then I used a long piece of angle iron (1/4" thick, 1" inch on the side) to pry on the open end end of the wrench, using the manifold as a fulcrum. More specifically, I held the angle iron steady with my right hand and popped the angle iron with my left palm near the top to supply impact. This moved the bolt approximately 1/32 of a turn before running out of room. I flipped the wrench around and got another 32nd with the open end, then flipped again and got another 32nd. After a couple cycles like this, the bolt would turn with a socket wrench. I used a universal joint and a wobble extension to get enough angle. After about 2 turns it was loose enough to come out by hand.

Last edited by jndaigle; 08-31-2014 at 07:22 PM.
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post #65 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-31-2014, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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It meant "loosen the four hex nuts at the top corners of the carb a little. Tap on the carb with a plastic hammer until you loosen the car from the gasket. Undo the nuts the rest of the way. Lift the carburetor off the studs." Why didn't it just say that?

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Originally Posted by dgosh28 View Post
This is exactly why "manuals" do me no good at all. I need a "how to". Manuals are written for trained mechanics, I usually don't even understand what they are trying to tell me.
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post #66 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-31-2014, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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Engine is out

Engine is out of the W114. The manual says 45 degrees off horizontal; it does not mean 44. It is very tight in there. But, now it is out!

Next, bring the 300 SL in the lift area and continue cleaning.
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post #67 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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Posting on R107 site

Since I am working on the R107 engine, I am posting things specific to the R107 on the R107 forum.

Last edited by jndaigle; 09-02-2014 at 01:43 PM.
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post #68 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 04:29 PM
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Just curious:
I'm going to make an assumption here, so disregard if you are not using a hoist:

it may be possible for you to simply disconnect all the linkages (throttle, steering drag link etc), electrical connectors and brake hoses / vac lines to the engine & trans, undo the rear mount and prop shaft coupling, and let the trans rest on a block of wood and then undo the subframe mount bolts and raise the car on the hoist.... that will leave you with an engine & trans sitting on the floor.

That is of course, assuming you are doing this on a hoist....

If the jacking points on the car are good, the use of 4 old pitman arm bolts, pushed all the way into the jacking points and then sit the hoist pads on the bolt heads. a small test by raising the hoist an inch or so, just to make sure the jacking points are not rusted out and will hold. If they deform you know they are unsafe to use and you have bigger issues - like hidden rust in the sill panels....

This is pretty much how I undertake work on the hoist, when it involves work to the subframes. the main reason being is that you want clear access to everything underneath, and while you can use the front chassis rails, sometimes they get in the way of 'work'.

The funny thing about using the jacking points on the 107's is that the car is just so much more stable on the 2 post hoist, than when using the front chassis rails and the front mount point on the rear subframe....

The big added bonus about doing it this way, is that you now have complete access to all the subframe, for cleaning / repainting / doing all the bushes bearings balljoints etc.

And you can take your time doing it, also it gives you the chance to clean the engine bay, or replace things that need replacing which you would otherwise have very difficult access to.

Also, you can get touch-up aerosol cans to fix any unsightly engine bay blemishes - just wrap up the wiring in aluminium foil (keeps the paint off) and you will have enough access to make everything new.

Oh yeah, the brake master and booster - the R107 booster I believe has a different stud pattern than the early ones... no biggie. the early ones use 4 bolts from memory, and some of the later ate boosters use 2 bolts diagonally. check your 107's pedal box first, you will see the nuts come through the pedal bracket.

I can't remember whether or not it's only the single diaphragm booster or if both the dual diaphragm and singles from the post 09/85 mech update 107's have a different stud pattern.

The 300 should have the same booster and master as the 560sl from memory.

Anyway, it's another one of those 'things' you have to investigate. swapping out a master and booster is much easier when the engine is out. Don't ask me how I know

Post some progress pics if you can - it's good to follow progress with pictures.

It might inspire others as well -

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post #69 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the thoughts!

Yes, I am for sure using a two-post lift.

I think I see your point. Let's review. The engine and transmission are completely out of the W114. But the W114 is supposed to get a transplant from a '86 300 SL.

You are saying that at the point when I want to get the W114 ready for its transplant, if I suspend the car using old pitman arms bolts, then I can drop the subframe off and work on the body of car much more easily. And, I will be able to swap a lot of stuff much more easily in the engine bay if the subframes are not in the way.

If I do the same thing to the R107, I can work on all the parts of the subframe without the body being in the way. I do have a very nice transmission jack and I can just sit the transmission on that and roll the subframe around in the shop. The only problem there is that I had planned to try to get everything working in the R107 before starting the swap, and I have already come up with a coolant leak that has to be dealt with.

I am posting stuff over in the R107 area about work on the R107; should I post everything here?

All good stuff. I'll be rereading a bunch and trying to get a sequence of events going. With regard to pictures, I did take a few and posted them on my smugmug site. There is not much to see on the W114, but there are some pictures here:

1975 Mercedes 280C - eccononno

and here

http://econonno.smugmug.com/Cars/Mer...6736&k=5QXW4ZH

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
Just curious:
I'm going to make an assumption here, so disregard if you are not using a hoist:

it may be possible for you to simply disconnect all the linkages (throttle, steering drag link etc), electrical connectors and brake hoses / vac lines to the engine & trans, undo the rear mount and prop shaft coupling, and let the trans rest on a block of wood and then undo the subframe mount bolts and raise the car on the hoist.... that will leave you with an engine & trans sitting on the floor.

That is of course, assuming you are doing this on a hoist....

If the jacking points on the car are good, the use of 4 old pitman arm bolts, pushed all the way into the jacking points and then sit the hoist pads on the bolt heads. a small test by raising the hoist an inch or so, just to make sure the jacking points are not rusted out and will hold. If they deform you know they are unsafe to use and you have bigger issues - like hidden rust in the sill panels....

This is pretty much how I undertake work on the hoist, when it involves work to the subframes. the main reason being is that you want clear access to everything underneath, and while you can use the front chassis rails, sometimes they get in the way of 'work'.

The funny thing about using the jacking points on the 107's is that the car is just so much more stable on the 2 post hoist, than when using the front chassis rails and the front mount point on the rear subframe....

The big added bonus about doing it this way, is that you now have complete access to all the subframe, for cleaning / repainting / doing all the bushes bearings balljoints etc.

And you can take your time doing it, also it gives you the chance to clean the engine bay, or replace things that need replacing which you would otherwise have very difficult access to.

Also, you can get touch-up aerosol cans to fix any unsightly engine bay blemishes - just wrap up the wiring in aluminium foil (keeps the paint off) and you will have enough access to make everything new.

Oh yeah, the brake master and booster - the R107 booster I believe has a different stud pattern than the early ones... no biggie. the early ones use 4 bolts from memory, and some of the later ate boosters use 2 bolts diagonally. check your 107's pedal box first, you will see the nuts come through the pedal bracket.

I can't remember whether or not it's only the single diaphragm booster or if both the dual diaphragm and singles from the post 09/85 mech update 107's have a different stud pattern.

The 300 should have the same booster and master as the 560sl from memory.

Anyway, it's another one of those 'things' you have to investigate. swapping out a master and booster is much easier when the engine is out. Don't ask me how I know

Post some progress pics if you can - it's good to follow progress with pictures.

It might inspire others as well -
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post #70 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-02-2014, 07:02 PM
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I was referring to the removal of the engine & trans. But I see you have already done this.

about the water pump... shop around. OE is the only way to go on these. The last one I bought for my m104 was nearly 400 bucks AUD. but you should be a fair bit more lucky on price. They are rebuildable if you have shop tools, but why bother.

need to check the correct pump part # against the engine number.

!975 W114 280 C Engine Swap/Modernization-screen-shot-2014-09-03-10.53.57

Current Drivers:
1987 107.048 Stella /// 1987 201.034 Hermann /// 1992 124.051 Gretel /// 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Oswald /// 2012 RenaultSport MeganeRS Trophy 8:08 Jean Rédélé
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