!975 W114 280 C Engine Swap/Modernization - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #51 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-24-2014, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jndaigle View Post
Brett,

Thanks much for your suggestions.

The reality is that it is not really that hard to find a 300E Engine. The problem is that the conversion requires at least the entire drive train and probably some other related parts to complete the fuel system, etc.

To complicate matters, even with a 1993 300E there are multiple choices for engines, and neither is 3.0; the choices are 2.8 and 3.2, assuming AWD is not wanted. I do admit that an AWD would be a hoot, but I don't know if I would be up for that kind of conversion even assuming I could find a reasonable donor car.

Any thoughts on this?
Linking the thread in from R107 forum.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c1...ml#post9902546

You have everything you need for the swap and then some. Huge performance upgrade with the post 09/85 mech update in the 107. Now you have the whole drivetrain at your disposal, you do not need much more encouragement to complete the entire drivetrain & engine bay harness swap.


Current Drivers:
1987 107.048 Stella /// 1987 201.034 Hermann /// 1992 124.051 Gretel /// 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Oswald /// 2012 RenaultSport MeganeRS Trophy 8:08 Jean Rédélé
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post #52 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-29-2014, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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Vehicle: 1975 280 C, 1988 300E, 1989 300E, 1993 300E
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I think tomorrow is engine pulling day for the 1975 280 C.
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post #53 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-30-2014, 05:33 AM
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Did you get the m103 running yet?

I wouldn't pull anything until you can establish the 107 kicks over and runs OK.

take pics. keep a camera nearby at all times. you will need to refer to the pictures many times during the swap.

Make sure you label all the wiring connections. use electricians PVC tape and a sharpie. label everything.

Bolts, put them in containers. photograph the bolts & nuts and the item they relate to as you remove them. Especially where there are some long and some short bolts in the same attached parts.
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Current Drivers:
1987 107.048 Stella /// 1987 201.034 Hermann /// 1992 124.051 Gretel /// 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Oswald /// 2012 RenaultSport MeganeRS Trophy 8:08 Jean Rédélé
OZBENZ - Australian Mercedes-Benz Forums <-Click

Last edited by JoeB; 08-30-2014 at 05:35 AM.
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post #54 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-30-2014, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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Joe,

Based on resurrecting a number of motorcycles from a pile of parts someone had disassembled, I'm sure this is extremely good advice. Thanks much for posting.

No, I did not work on the M103 yet. Let me refresh a little. I know for absolute sure that the engine on the W114 is shot; the cams can easily win the "ugly cam" contest." The previous owner ran this car with a busted head gasket over a period of time, then the car sat for 10 years. So, for sure the engine has to come out. For better or for worse, I decided to pull the engine and transmission of the W114 first.

As of right now, just about everything is disconnected in the W114 except the starter cable from battery positive.

The W114 is sitting on my two post lift. My plan is to remove the engine and transmission, and then move it to a different area of the shop so I can use the lift to mess with the R107. I am hoping I get the R107 on this lift later in the day.

Before I touch anything, I want to do a complete inspection of the R107, both while it is sitting on the ground and while it is up in the air. I am hoping that I will be able to remove the top and move the bent frame member out of the way with a frame ram so I can get in easily from the left or right and also so that the trunk lid can open all the way. I am thinking that it may be possible to bend the post back with a 20 ton ram without doing too much damage. Maybe I'll talk to a body man and see if it is better to just cut it off with a plasma cutter to get it out of the way.

My plan is to first see if I can get the engine to turn. To do that, I expect to pull the plugs and take a look inside and if it looks OK, change the oil and filter and maybe put a little marvel mystery oil in each cylinder, and then try to turn the engine by hand. If it doesn't go immediately, I'll let it sit for a day or so and go again. Since it has sat supposedly for only 3 years and the oil appears to be very clean, I am hoping to get lucky.

After I am sure it will turn over, I'll check the wiring as carefully as possible for shorts and stuff like that. Probably disconnect the fuel pump and fuel supply. Then I'll buy or borrow a battery from another vehicle, and hook up the starter and start checking the ignition system and the compression.

I don't plan to even plan to make a swap until I know the whole set up in the R107 is usable.

BTW, I do have a W114 completely in tact as a reference. If the R107 idea does not work, I may go to the W114 and see if I can get that going and then do a swap with that one. The body of that one is a serious disaster.

Please let me know if you think my plan for fooling with the R107 is a bad plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
Did you get the m103 running yet?

I wouldn't pull anything until you can establish the 107 kicks over and runs OK.

take pics. keep a camera nearby at all times. you will need to refer to the pictures many times during the swap.

Make sure you label all the wiring connections. use electricians PVC tape and a sharpie. label everything.

Bolts, put them in containers. photograph the bolts & nuts and the item they relate to as you remove them. Especially where there are some long and some short bolts in the same attached parts.
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post #55 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-30-2014, 09:38 AM
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nah, all is dead easy on cis-e.

let's assume it 'was' running before the tree.

to resurrect it, is simple.

first, get access to the engine bay and cabin. use a sawzall and cut the a pillars.
the hardtop will lift out with the undoing of the locks on the side and the rear lock crank... you should be able to get it off easy.

get a battery with good charge - din88 size

pull the crank angle sensor cable from the EZL unit on the wheelarch (green coax plug on the EZL)

fit the battery.

drain the coolant at the radiator, if it looks suss. otherwise wait until the engine has been started and run - then change it.
get the car up on the hoist, drain the fuel from the tank, remove the plastic cover from the fuel pumps, remove the filter. You will be needing all this anyway, so replace the filter now before putting a small amount of clean fuel in the tank.

pull the plug leads off the plugs - use a proper pair of plug pliers and remove them at the insulator, do not pull the rubber boot or the silicon sleeve on the wire - this is a sure fire way to root a set of leads and they cost nearly 300 bucks to replace with the correct ones.
Theyre Beru, so you can remake them, but if you take care of them they should be fine.

pull the plugs, look at them and see if they look OK.

drop your marvel oil / atf in the bores. key in ignition, crank it over.

it should turn real freely and you should see the oil pressure in the gauge come up real quick.

if it does, you're 90% there....

refit the plugs, leads, refit the crank angle sensor plug to the EZL.
make sure there is good fuel in the tank.

crack the inlet nut fuel line on the fuel divider. turn the ignition to position #2 several times. You should hear the pumps prime and stop. as soon as they stop turn the ignition off and on again, until the pumps stop priming. this gets the clean fuel up to the divider.
turn the ignition off. tighten the inlet connection at the fuel divider. notice there is a little brass adapter there... thats a filter. you should replace this (later) when you have established the car runs.

now, crack each of the nuts on the top of the fuel divider... just crack them open, and repeat the 'priming sequence' I just mentioned.
have a look on the top of the divider. if there is clean fuel, tighten the nuts. if there is gunk, slacken the nuts a little more and prime a few more times, then tighten all the nuts again.

now you're ready to fire it up.

1. you should have oil pressure already established
2. you have fuel established
3. you should get spark, providing the crank sensor is plugged into the EZL.

crank the car over. it should catch pretty quick and settle into a good idle after it clears all the oil out of the cylinders. get the idle speed up a bit asap - around 2K. vary it up and down until the engine warms up, then let it idle for a bit.

go looking for coolant leaks, make sure the header tank is holding pressure. get the engine real hot by giving it some elevated RPM's until you see the temp gauge climb nice and warm.

when you are satisfied it's running OK, then turn it off, let it cool and come back in the morning when it is stone cold and start it. It should catch immediately with no touching anything other than the key.

then you're ready for the transplant!

Current Drivers:
1987 107.048 Stella /// 1987 201.034 Hermann /// 1992 124.051 Gretel /// 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Oswald /// 2012 RenaultSport MeganeRS Trophy 8:08 Jean Rédélé
OZBENZ - Australian Mercedes-Benz Forums <-Click
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post #56 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-30-2014, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for additional advice.

Seems you are much less of a "scary cat" than I. Also car has been sitting outside so I am real concerned about stuff that is not protected from weather. Also, I don't have a manual for the 300 SL and my 300E just went down the road for couple hundred thousand miles just needing work on AC and new shocks, so I never had a shop manual.

Just checked Autozone; 1986 300 SL does not exist. 300E and 560 SL use same fuel filter, so probably same for 300 SL.
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post #57 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-30-2014, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Oh, by the way, I can get into the car from either door. It is just that the RHS windshield post is kinda laying into the space. I could whack it off or push it out of the way with a ram easily enough. LHS door works just fine.

Last edited by jndaigle; 08-30-2014 at 10:53 AM.
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post #58 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-30-2014, 10:41 AM
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the big filter in the rear is the same for all 107's 124's 201's 126's... probably others.

engine is identical to m103 in w124. so a 124 service manual will help

Mercedes-Benz Model 124 Service Manual Library

mechanical injection (not LH). and you're set.

Current Drivers:
1987 107.048 Stella /// 1987 201.034 Hermann /// 1992 124.051 Gretel /// 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Oswald /// 2012 RenaultSport MeganeRS Trophy 8:08 Jean Rédélé
OZBENZ - Australian Mercedes-Benz Forums <-Click
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post #59 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-30-2014, 10:46 AM
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All you need to remember - the basic principle of KE is the same for all engines, regardless of type.
they all use the same fuel filters, at the tank and at the divider.
principle of ignition is the same. just different part numbers.
a LOT of parts are interchangeable on KE. so there is no need to worry.
oil filter - there are 2 types, and element type and a metal housing type. most m103's have the metal housing type. you need to get a proper oil filter 'nut' for these to properly and easily get them off.
they are about 40-50 bucks for a hazet one. (best tools for mercedes.)

check out the 124 forum for a load of m103 fans - they will know all the part numbers for everything you need.

Current Drivers:
1987 107.048 Stella /// 1987 201.034 Hermann /// 1992 124.051 Gretel /// 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Oswald /// 2012 RenaultSport MeganeRS Trophy 8:08 Jean Rédélé
OZBENZ - Australian Mercedes-Benz Forums <-Click
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post #60 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-30-2014, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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I have a Bosch publication "Mechanical Gasoline Fuel Injected System with Lambda Closed-Loop Control K-Jetronic" Technical Instruction; maybe that will be helpful at some point. So far, it is unopened!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
the big filter in the rear is the same for all 107's 124's 201's 126's... probably others.

engine is identical to m103 in w124. so a 124 service manual will help

Mercedes-Benz Model 124 Service Manual Library

mechanical injection (not LH). and you're set.
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