!975 W114 280 C Engine Swap/Modernization - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #31 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 09:52 AM
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Ahh. I see. You want to use the factory ECU. That makes as it would be simpler. In your case, find a complete donor car, so you can pull off what you need. The problem with the E300, is the transmision is a computer controlled automatic, and i never found an aftermarket ECU to conrtol it. So, the donor makes sense.

I used the manual trans from the C230 coupe so I didn't have to deal with it. You could see if the C230 manual trans will mate to the E300 motor, or if you can use an older Auto trans that is not ECU controlled.

This is kind if rambling... Sorry.

Hum Something completely out there, you can use an american trans like a 700R4 behind it. I think there is a coompany making an adapter....


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post #32 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 11:43 AM
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Wow. I just pulled up the automobile-catalog.com specs on this 1976 drivetrain and yikes. It seems to combine the worst of all worlds:
- 16.7 mpg combined. Ok not terrible.
- 120 hp
- 14.1 seconds 0-60
- 3.69 final drive / differential ratio

So what rear differentials can be "bolt-in" for this car? Does anyone know?




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post #33 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 02:06 PM
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Since you're talking about M103/M104 swaps, a couple of points of interest. The M104 comes in two variants; an early version with CIS injection, and a later with HFM injection. The latter would probably the the most desirable, but also the trickiest due to the more complicated harness. Also, the bellhousings are different on later MB chassis cars starting with the 201 and 124, so you'd want the transmission and probably the driveshaft and shifter assembly from the donor vehicle. These engines use an aluminum oil pan, so I'd want to be sure they would fit around the subframes on an early car like the 114/115. I love engine swaps
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post #34 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your post. I don't really have a feel for the CIS versus the HFM, but I do know I was very happy all around with my '87 300E.

So far, the only cars I've looked at were one 1989 300E in reasonable running condition and a '73 280/'86 300 SL pair that have ben sitting for quite a while. Granted I've not been looking that long, but it may be that I'll end up putting the 300 SL engine and running gear in the 280 C if the parts can be made to work.

For me, think it may be best to try to do something simple first and then if I enjoy that, try to do something more complicated later. I usually have lots of irons in the fire and I really like finishing projects I start on, so I like the projects to have bounds. Maybe the 300 SL swap into the 280 C is a good first objective.

Any opinion on that?


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Since you're talking about M103/M104 swaps, a couple of points of interest. The M104 comes in two variants; an early version with CIS injection, and a later with HFM injection. The latter would probably the the most desirable, but also the trickiest due to the more complicated harness. Also, the bellhousings are different on later MB chassis cars starting with the 201 and 124, so you'd want the transmission and probably the driveshaft and shifter assembly from the donor vehicle. These engines use an aluminum oil pan, so I'd want to be sure they would fit around the subframes on an early car like the 114/115. I love engine swaps
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post #35 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 08:23 PM
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All I can say is that if you take an engine from a w107 or w114/115, you shouldn't need to change the oil pan since both use the same subframe.


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post #36 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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The more I think about this the more I like the idea of coming out the bottom with the engine and all. What I'm thinking is that it would make it a lot more convenient to inspect and bring the suspension up to standards. Also all the subframes, engines, and trannys can be sitting there to admire and make plans at the same time.

Probably I'll just take the fluid out of the braking system and start all over again with resorted calipers and new hoses, assuming parts are available. So, probably I'll just remove all the brake stuff before messing with engines.

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All I can say is that if you take an engine from a w107 or w114/115, you shouldn't need to change the oil pan since both use the same subframe.


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post #37 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 06:32 AM
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!975 W114 280 C Engine Swap/Modernization

I would be interested in learning what parts attached to the front subframe are interchangeable between the 107 and 114/115. I know the front suspension is not entirely identical because clk lightweight 7x16 et37 7-hole wheels bolt right on a 107 with plenty of clearance between the tierod and the rim, but it takes at least a 5 mm spacer to bolt them on my w114 sedan.

It might be a tough decision as to whether you should use the updated subframe from the 86-89 107 or just sell it. I've bought two for $250 shipped, but they are often for sale for $800. They are over $1500 new from MB and still in demand due to the ongoing failures of the pre-1986 subframes. (There is still an open service campaign where North American 450sl and 450slc can have MB USA pay to replace the subframe. Previously MB offered gussets that could be welded on an uncracked subframe, but they are NLA. A 107 forum member had 100 sets made a few months ago, but all have been sold already. More info on this in the 107 forum sticky EGv107.)

Apparently the subframe was ok for the lighter w114/115 cars with smaller engines, and no "service campaign" was issued. However, there are many 380sl cars with aluminum blocks that have had subframe failures even though they were not covered under the service campaign. I am relatively new to w114/115. So I do not know whether many w114/115 owners have suffered from cracked lower control arm mounts on their subframes. If so, I would highly recommend using the 300sl 86-89 r107 subframe that you would get with that 300sl. Edit: ... Or at least welding on some subframe gussets (on the w114/115 subframe) which are just metal fillers.

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post #38 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 04:46 PM
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The M104 is the only I would consider, Not worth it IMO to swap in a M103.
The Late M104 like I said 1993 on are ideal. And if you hunt around you can find a complete manual kit for about $1500.00

I would not even think about swapping in the M103, way too much work for the CIS engine for the payout again IMO.

If you decide to do this as I said I could write out a step by step, but for an M103 I wont waste my time.

The later M104is more powerful and fuel efficient. Even more so with a manual versus the autobox.

The M103 is a great engine in its own right, but as far as I'm concerned not worthy of going through the motions for a swap.

I'm pressed for time right now as I am restoring a 500sec convertible and also have my normal work, but it sounds like you have not made up your mind whch direction to go, which is ok, do more research.



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post #39 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 06:10 PM
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My plan is to go fetch the m110 5-speed drive train tomorrow. I guess I conveniently forgot the critical detail of the block being seized. The head from the euro m110 is already pulled though. So maybe I just take the head. I will report back tomorrow.


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post #40 of 71 (permalink) Old 06-19-2014, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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OK. I spent a fair amount of time following up on this and the truth is I am confused. Perhaps you would be willing to give me some pointers on what I should be looking for.

For example, do you suggest that I try to buy an engine/transmission combination or follow the earlier recommendation of a complete car. For a complete car, am I looking for a salvage or roadworthy car? In either case, what are some examples of cars I should be searching for if I want a 1993-on M104 with manual transmission?

Really, I'm having trouble figuring out what I would be looking for.

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The M104 is the only I would consider, Not worth it IMO to swap in a M103.
The Late M104 like I said 1993 on are ideal. And if you hunt around you can find a complete manual kit for about $1500.00
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