Ponton and Fintail Temperatura gauge fix. - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Date registered: May 2014
Vehicle: 1962, 220b (W111 010 50)
Location: Metepec, Mexico
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Smile Ponton and Fintail Temperatura gauge fix.

Hi to all!
I want to share that I had fixed the Temperature sensor-gauge of may W111.
Backgroud; when I got the car I noticed that the capilar tube that goes between the sensor in the block and the gauge in the cluter was broken, so I thout I was going to replace it in the future. Months later I fixed following a Ponton group direction and worked for me, was easy, needed to have some tools, time and a lot of patience.
I share with you (if I can, video!) a small video when I did check that was working before the installation in the vehicle.
Many things going on in my proyect, I will continue in the future showing you some advances in my Project.

Have a nice weekend
Miguel

Last edited by Pilleway; 05-04-2014 at 02:43 PM. Reason: missing some information
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 03:35 PM
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Where is the video? I didn't think that the capillary tube could be replaced without special equipment...

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
Past: 1971 250 C, 1985 300 TD, 1967 250 S, 1968 280 S,1981 300 D, 1982 280CE, 3 Facel Vegas, Borgward Isabella Coupe, Alfa 2600 Sprint, Volvo P1900 (yes), numerous less interesting Volvos, ...
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Scott, the capillary tube is not replaced, it is fixed, and filled with ether.
In the MB Ponton group there is a fix, and can be done.
Mine is now working and it was in two pices.
The video do not know how can I upload it so I can show you that the gauge is working now.

Regards.
Miguel.
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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Here is the repair procedure I used to fix my temperature gauge-sensor.

Repair Procedure

Caution: Ether (the working fluid in the gauge) is a highly flammable substance. Do not have any open flame near your work area. Do not use a torch for the soldering operations.

First I repaired the break at the bulb end by removing the old bit left in the bulb. It was only soldered in. DO NOT use a torch! A soldering iron is just fine. Then I cleaned the other end of the capillary tube and pre-soldered it, and put it back in the bulb and soldered it closed.

Note that there might be a small amount of ether left in the bulb — you can smell it. Soldering will evaporate the remains, but a blow torch WILL give a small, but nice explosion.

The system is now closed, but won't make your gauge needle move because once you cut the capillary tube, too much of the ether will have dripped out or evaporated. So it has to be refilled, which is easier than many people think.

I decided to refill from the middle of the capillary tube, so cut it there with a Dremel tool, and cleaned the edges of the tube (as well as an inch of both ends) with fine sandpaper — preparing to pre-solder. Try to pre-solder in such a way that you leave 3 mm of the capillary ends free from solder. You don't want to block the capillary tube when we solder it all back together.

I made up a 3 cm long sleeve from 2 mm outside diameter (O.D.) brass tubing (sourced from a model shop). The capillary tube of the temperature sensor is 1.2 mm O.D. I drilled both ends of the 2 mm brass tube out with a 1.2 mm bit, and made sure the capillary tube fit snug in both ends of the 2 mm brass tube.

Filling with Ether

I found no need for an "ice bath." Purchased 200 ml of ether from eBay (£15). Whereas 5 ml would have been sufficient, I could not find a smaller quantity to buy. With a 5 ml syringe filled with 2 ml of ether and a 25G x 5/8 inch needle, which fit very nicely in our capillary tube, I first sucked as much air out of the tube as possible and then squeezed the ether in, then pulled the plunger again to suck more air out, and pressed the plunger again to let some ether in. Then pulled again to suck, etc. It takes five or six pull-push plunges to fill the dial mechanism end, and the same for the bulb side. You can tell when both sides are full by removing the needle and covering the bulb with your hand — some ether will come out of the capillary tube. Do this for both ends. Then put the needle back in and do one last pull-push with the syringe. Do this for both sides. Then leave the needle and syringe in on both ends of the capillary tube. No ether will escape. Get the soldering iron and sleeve ready, and quickly remove needles and push both ends in the sleeve. Now solder both ends closed. DO NOT use too much solder. Make sure the joints look properly closed. DONE.

Testing and Adjustments

Immerse bulb in kettle and start to boil, and you will see the dial slowly going up to 100° Celcius. While observing the dial mechanism, you might want to cycle the sensor bulb between cold and boiling water a few times to verify that nothing is binding the movement. The gauge should now be restored to operation.

If the gauge does not read 100° C in boiling water you have two options: 01) Note the error and live with it. 02) Attempt to adjust the gauge head unit. The gauge head is a Bourdon tube connected to the indicator by a linkage. The Bourdon tube is simply a flattened tube rolled into a coil. As pressure is applied, the tube unwinds slightly. When the pressure is removed, the coiled tube returns to its original position.

Adjustment is made by bringing the sensing bulb to a known temperature by placing it in boiling water (212°F) then bending the linkage that connects the Bourdon tube to the indicator. Do not bend the Bourdon tube itself. [Chrysler 1953 page 70] states that it is possible to adjust the gauge if its reading is less than 30° different than the actual temperature.

If you have any doubts about the adjustment operation, do not attempt it. You can buy replacement sensing bulbs and tubes at any auto supply store. Getting an original gauge dash head is a lot harder.

It was somthing for DIY, but need to have some technical background.
Regards
Miguel.
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 04:36 PM
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Excellent write-up. Thanks. Perhaps you can upload your video to YouTube or a image hosting site...

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
Past: 1971 250 C, 1985 300 TD, 1967 250 S, 1968 280 S,1981 300 D, 1982 280CE, 3 Facel Vegas, Borgward Isabella Coupe, Alfa 2600 Sprint, Volvo P1900 (yes), numerous less interesting Volvos, ...
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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Scott, I just did a copy-paste from what is in the Ponton fórum.
Regarding the video, is about the gauge moving due to induced hot air temperatura in the temperature bulb.

Saludos. (regards)
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 05:21 PM
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Thanks for copying it over. On ebay I see different types of Ether...

Diethyl Ether
Petroleum Ether
Ethylene Glycol Monoethyl Ether

Do you know which is correct for this application?

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
Past: 1971 250 C, 1985 300 TD, 1967 250 S, 1968 280 S,1981 300 D, 1982 280CE, 3 Facel Vegas, Borgward Isabella Coupe, Alfa 2600 Sprint, Volvo P1900 (yes), numerous less interesting Volvos, ...
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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I look in to the internet (wikipedia)and I understood they were the same.

Additional experience when doing the repair,
The one I bought said ether and what i did was to have it in the frizzer, to be far away from the boiling point (is around 100 F), having the bottle open at room temprtature the ether boils ( bubbles).
Also what I did was to have the bulb and the gage cool so when filling with ether, had time to do the filling and not having as little as posible vapor presure from the ether trying to boil.
Hope you undrestand all these details when doing the fill

Do you have a vehicle with such repair need?
Saludos
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 08:00 PM
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I have 2 broken temperature gauges.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
Past: 1971 250 C, 1985 300 TD, 1967 250 S, 1968 280 S,1981 300 D, 1982 280CE, 3 Facel Vegas, Borgward Isabella Coupe, Alfa 2600 Sprint, Volvo P1900 (yes), numerous less interesting Volvos, ...
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Are them broken at the capilar tube? If the case, then the procedure will work, if broken at the sensor, I am sure can be fixed, if broken at the gauge (less likely) hard to fix!

Very sure you will be able to get them back to work!
Saludos
Miguel
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