220 SEB Coupe 1964 W111 engine problem - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Apr 2012
Vehicle: Land Rover with retrofitted MB 300 D engine; 617.910, 220 SEB Coupe 1964
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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220 SEB Coupe 1964 W111 engine problem

Hi all, a request for advise on an engine issue I am battling with.

I am restoring a ´64 220 SEB Coupé, with the 6 cylinder injection engine in it. Car has been idle for 15 years, but was reported to be fully functioning when last parked in 1999. I have renewed all the fluids, filters and so on, and come to the stage of starting her up. Amazingly the car fired right up, -I cranked the starter for no more than 5 seconds-. So far so good, after a few minutes of semi-rough idling the engine settled down nicely and sounded perfect.

Next was time for a careful drive around the neighborhood; here is where the problem starts. More or less immediately (after a hundred meters or so) with ever so careful load on the engine the running becomes very rough and stuttering and soon results in a stall. At this point the engine will not restart until a few minutes have passed. Once restarted the engine idles wonderfully, and will rev up normally without load. But as soon as a driving is attempted the stutter/stall symptom repeats itself.

I have repeated the above a number of times now, with pretty identical results.

Happy Easter and looking forward to hearing any ideas!

/Johan
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 07:42 AM
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Date registered: Dec 2003
Vehicle: 1965 220S, 1999 Volvo V70 (wagon), 2006 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor, 72 350SL 4 Speed
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When it stops running is the fuel pump still running, i.e. a whirring at the rear? You do have fuel, right? Did you clean out the tank? Did you replace the strainer in the tank? Is there any junk in the fuel filter canister? Are the fuel dampers clean with new rubber membranes?


The fuel filter is attached to the engine mount as opposed to the oil filter farther back.

Fuel these days has ethanol in it and will gel and can block various passages.

You might want to look at Home - Mercedes Benz 230SL, 250SL, 280SL Pagoda Group and the 6.3 forums on The International M-100 Group.

Near Manassas Va. '65 220S, 2006 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, '99 Volvo V70, '72 350SL 4 speed

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952. It's BRAKES not breaks. You break a bone, use brakes to stop your car. /rant

http://www.megamanual.com/index.html
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Apr 2012
Vehicle: Land Rover with retrofitted MB 300 D engine; 617.910, 220 SEB Coupe 1964
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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I renewed the fuel filter, drained the fuel tank and refilled with new fuel, so believe that is ok. The filter canister looked ok, and anyway I cleaned it carefully.

The fuel pump at the rear whirrs and delivers a steady stream when I crack open the vent screw on the filter canister. However, I have not thought about if it runs when the engine stalls. It should run all the time, correct?

The one thing I have not looked at are the fuel dampers; what and where are they?

Thanks!

/Johan
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 10:29 AM
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How did you drain the fuel? Not to be redundant but you didn't specifically say if you cleaned or replaced the fuel strainer that Wbain suggested. It is separate from the "fuel filter" on the engine mount arm and the pump strainer. It is the one you unbolt from the bottom of the fuel tank. I press this point because your symptoms are textbook for a clogged tank strainer, the lower the fuel the more concentrated debris, and it will clog but when the car then stops and the fuel is no longer under pressure, the debris is released and again suspended in the remaining fuel allowing it to restart until it clogs again.

You ay or may not choose to have the inside of the tank cleaned and sealed, but at the very least you should check this strainer.

-Marrs

The Coupe Group (W111/112 coupes and cabs)official website
The Coupe Group on Facebook


"Too many people are working at jobs they hate, to buy things they don't particularly want, to impress people they don't even care about." --Dr. Deepak Chopra
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks DirectLA,

I drained the fuel tank by removing the bottom plug under the tank, the strainer attached to the plug (a cylinder about 3 inches long) looked ok, I blew it clean and refitted it. The drained fuel of course smelled antique but did not appear contaminated with debris.

However, you mention a pump strainer. This I have overlooked..... And then we have those fuel dampers which I need to read up on!

/Johan
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 02:16 PM
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There are two types of fuel pumps, long, early, and short, late. Please take a picture of the pump so we can see. The two types are interchangeable.

Do you have an EPC, Electronics Parts Catalog, account?

https://epc.startekinfo.com/epc/home.jsp

You need JAVA.

Near Manassas Va. '65 220S, 2006 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, '99 Volvo V70, '72 350SL 4 speed

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952. It's BRAKES not breaks. You break a bone, use brakes to stop your car. /rant

http://www.megamanual.com/index.html
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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Vehicle: Land Rover with retrofitted MB 300 D engine; 617.910, 220 SEB Coupe 1964
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I will upload a photo of the fuel pump during today.

The EPC site and service looks great. -Unfortunately they only offer subscribtions to US based residents. I am in Stockholm, Sweden....
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-20-2014, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Apr 2012
Vehicle: Land Rover with retrofitted MB 300 D engine; 617.910, 220 SEB Coupe 1964
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Problem identified!

Name:  Fuel pump.JPG
Views: 520
Size:  81.1 KB

So it turns out the fuel pump is defective. After listening a bit closer I found that there was an uneven sound from it. Running the fuel pipe in the engine bay to a bucket with the pump on revealed that it only intermittently pumped fuel.

So tomorrow I remove the pump (pictured). Does anyone know if this one is serviceable or if I should just seek a new one?

Thanks for the help along the way!

/Johan
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-20-2014, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Apr 2012
Vehicle: Land Rover with retrofitted MB 300 D engine; 617.910, 220 SEB Coupe 1964
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Is it necessary to have this specific pump? There are lots of generic ones in the market at very resonable prices. All that is needed is a steady supply of fuel to the IP, right? Anyone know what the pressure and flow specs of these pumps are?
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-20-2014, 12:59 PM
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There was another post here or on PeachParts in the last week about replacing the fuel pump, so try to locate that. I used a larger aftermarket on mine, but then you can't reuse the metal shroud that protects the pump, but I noticed on that thread there is an OEM style still available that should be same size and allow use of the shroud.

The advantage to the aftermarket pump is $80 compared to $600 for OEM. I am going to have a new shroud made or at least attach a heavy bar to offer some protection.

-Marrs

The Coupe Group (W111/112 coupes and cabs)official website
The Coupe Group on Facebook


"Too many people are working at jobs they hate, to buy things they don't particularly want, to impress people they don't even care about." --Dr. Deepak Chopra

Last edited by DirectLA; 04-22-2014 at 04:22 PM.
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