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post #51 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-23-2014, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoot View Post
That's interesting. I thought the clear ones WERE faded amber ones. Can someone confirm otherwise? Also, who is selling reproductions and how good are they?
I can say with 100% certainty that the early cars (mine is a '62) came with clear lenses. Mine still had them until somebody backed into it last summer and I had to get repros. The repros are very similar but the fluting on the outside is slightly different on the OEM bullets, and the repro clear are based on the amber's shape, I'm guessing because they couldn't find original clears to cast from.

You really can tell clear from faded amber if you have them side by side, but another way to tell is the amber lenses will retain their color in the base part that is covered by the bezel protects them from the sun so the base will always have some amber left, usually almost all. I bought a few as spares, they were expensive, so probably not popular since many people don't know they even exist. I have been trying to find the cutoff date or model where this changed, but so far no luck.

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post #52 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-23-2014, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the very detailed and knowledgable answer. I see you have some experience with these cars. What you have explained and depicted makes sense that is why i was confused as to why springs would alter the height of the diff, when in fact they shouldnt so i will have to look at the rhino horn mounts as you are reffering too.

As to that mount is it in the trunk covered by a square plastic cover that is pretty visible dead center ?

Do you know of any websites that i can purchase these mounts and different thickness spacers for the springs ?

Thanks alot for all of the help. In the end i would like to have a nice lower look with the camber as good as possible, i know it will not be perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew56cus View Post
hang on hang on hang on.
Lots is being said here but I don't think people are really understanding how the swing arm suspension works.
Take a look at the picture below - this is the diff out of my coupe. See the 'rhino horn' pointing upward? Well that is what fixes the rear end in position in the car in a vertical sense - there is a rubber and steel mount in the trunk that the rhino horn bolts into. This does not move - so the main centre part of the rear end has a fixed position in space relative to the rest of the car - including the floor of the trunk. So, for your compensating spring to be hitting the floor, it means that the mounting through the trunk floor is incorrect. Either the mount has broken, the bolt has not been done up tightly, or it has been raised by using a spacer between the mount and the mounting position in the trunk.
Attachment 906113

Now here is a picture below of the rear end mounted in the car. See the low centre pivot point - well, its position does not move up or down once the rear end is mounted in the car (unless the mount is broken). The only thing that moves are the swing arms, in a radius as indicated by the red arrows.
Attachment 906121

So, the geometry of raising and lowering suspension is simple.
1) If the rear end is mounted as per factory, as soon as the coil springs between the car and the trailing arms are altered or the compensating spring is removed, you will get a change in camber. No question about it.
2) Changing the length of the main coil springs or compensator spring will not change the position of the rear end relative to the trunk floor. So if there is contact, it has nothing to do with springs.
3) The only way to maintain neutral camber and lower the car is to raise the position of the entire rear end relative to the car. You can do this by fitting a spacer between the rhino horn mount in the trunk and the car. However, this will reduce the clearance between the entire rear end and the car. So you could end up the compensator spring hitting the trunk floor, or the prop shaft hitting the tunnel.

Now, onto the personal attacks on wanting to lower the car. Scoot, you normally are very rational, but for some reason you are choosing to impose rather strongly your personal opinion on lowering the car on someone else. Are you going to try to convert his religion next as well? What should his favourite colour be?

The facts are that some lowering is not all bad - look at the camber used on race cars - they deliberately dial in negative camber to improve handling. However, it will impact on tyre life. If you go extreme like the airbag guys do, you run the real risk of breaking the sliding joint and then the entire rear is a throw away job. MB tell you when the diff is out of the car to basically brace it so it cannot articulate to the full extremes otherwise damage could result. Now in getting them in and out I have found this impossible to do, so I just do it gently and have had no problems in the 10 or so rear ends I have changed.

MB have many ways of subtly changing the height and camber of the rear end. There are different thickness rubber pads at the top of the main springs, and for the compensator spring, that you can buy. There are also different springs themselves, which have different coloured stripes painted on them. In the factory manual, they have what combination of rubbers and striped springs you should use for different models. I found I put a W108 rear end in my finnie, and it was way too high, even after removing the compensator spring. So I got the springs and pads out of a W110 190D and put them in - and voila, it is now level.

The only thing I will tell you to do rather than air my opinion is check the mount in the trunk. Check it is tight, check it is not misaligned. If they are ok, then pull the mount out and check if the rubber has torn or compressed heaps. New mounts should be readily available from most parts suppliers as they are a wearing item. Much cheaper than buying new springs and pads.

Good luck,
Drew
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post #53 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-24-2014, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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i also noticed that there is some sort of arm with an adjustment that is attached to the rhino horn. Does anyone know if this raises/lowers the differ ?





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post #54 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-24-2014, 10:24 PM
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Way to go Drew! Awesome explanation and a level headed response
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post #55 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-25-2014, 01:36 AM
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Benzohh, take a good look at the suspension whilst you are under the car and visualise how it all links together and what moves where. If you look at that lateral link, you can see by winding the nuts the link will either get shorter or longer. It is also oriented horizontally. So, which way do you think the entire assembly will move if the link is made shorter or longer? If you said sideways, then ta da! you are a winner.
This lateral link adjusts the position of the rear end side-to-side relative to the car. So you check the gap between the tyres and the body on each side, and adjust its length until the gap is even. Nothing to do with up and down.

As for the rhino horn mount, yes it is the one in the trunk under the square cover. I got mine from the classic centre last time - part number 110 350 06 75 and it cost about $250 or so. Hopefully someone can find a cheaper source for you. I don't have the spring and pad combinations for 108's - perhaps the extensive resources area has a reference?

Oh, and one thing I do agree with Scoot on - cutting or heating springs to make them shorter is not ideal. It changes the spring rate, and hence the ride quality. But custom springs, or re-tempering, costs money - so you have to decide yourself whether the look or ride is more important to you.
Cheers,
Drew
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post #56 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-25-2014, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the quick response, i was laying under the car looking at it for quite a while haha. As for the spacer on top of the rhino horn it does not look like anything was added nor does it look like it is torn i tightened all the nuts on top but there was no significant one that was really loose. and there is no visible spacer through the little gap underneath the car. I would need to put it on a lift and get a better look at it .

As right now im going to put stock springs without compensator spring to see how the car sits then if its too high i will cut 1 coil and try again until i get the desired look.

Thanks for all the help

as far as the springs being cut and before doing it i read this article .Cutting Coil Springs - EATON Detroit Spring



Quote:
Originally Posted by drew56cus View Post
Benzohh, take a good look at the suspension whilst you are under the car and visualise how it all links together and what moves where. If you look at that lateral link, you can see by winding the nuts the link will either get shorter or longer. It is also oriented horizontally. So, which way do you think the entire assembly will move if the link is made shorter or longer? If you said sideways, then ta da! you are a winner.
This lateral link adjusts the position of the rear end side-to-side relative to the car. So you check the gap between the tyres and the body on each side, and adjust its length until the gap is even. Nothing to do with up and down.

As for the rhino horn mount, yes it is the one in the trunk under the square cover. I got mine from the classic centre last time - part number 110 350 06 75 and it cost about $250 or so. Hopefully someone can find a cheaper source for you. I don't have the spring and pad combinations for 108's - perhaps the extensive resources area has a reference?

Oh, and one thing I do agree with Scoot on - cutting or heating springs to make them shorter is not ideal. It changes the spring rate, and hence the ride quality. But custom springs, or re-tempering, costs money - so you have to decide yourself whether the look or ride is more important to you.
Cheers,
Drew
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