66 200D clutch bled but not disengaging - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-22-2014, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Sep 2013
Vehicle: Mk4 VW Jetta 2.slow, W110 Heckflosse 1.9L swapped
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66 200D clutch bled but not disengaging/misfire on cylinder #2

Been googling this problem for a few days now and we're at a loss at what we should try next before dismantling the transmission.

66 200D, sat 3 years before I rescued it. First day working on it, new battery and gas and with some fluid in the clutch with a gravity bleed, tried to drive around my driveway. The clutch engaging point disintegrated rapidly in the small loop around the driveway. Small diagram for reference:

|--------------| clutch travel
|------|-------| slipping point for initial take off
|---|----------| clutched back in, slipped the clutch again and this was engaging point.
|-|------------| and again
||-------------| until this happened.

(note: there was still ample pressure and quick return in the pedal while this was happening)

My foot was on the floor and it was disengaged. If I moved my foot a 1/4" of an inch I was engaging the clutch. Managed to get it back around the driveway like that and parked it.

Read up and saw we needed to do the brake caliper bottom-up bleed.

We did that yesterday and bled it until no more air bubbles came up out of the reservoir (with the cap off). My dad pumped the brake at least 3 times after I stopped seeing air come out of the reservoir. We figured that was good.

Got the car back on the ground, started it up and tried to engage reverse. Grinding. No forward gears will let me in while the car is running, I can get all 4 forward gears and reverse with the car off no problem.

We've looked underneath as we engage the clutch and it appears that it's engaging all the way as it looks on the slave. Looks like it can't go back any farther.

So unless the clutch just magically stuck itself to the flywheel in the past week and disengaged itself from the clutch mechanism (somehow), we're at a loss of what to try next to narrow down the issue.

No leaks from the slave or master as far as I can tell, it did sit almost 3 years so internal leaking could be possible but like I said with the slave looking like it's going back all the way I doubt it could be that and I doubt we've bled it wrong at this point.

Throwout bearing perhaps? Any ideas? I asked mechanic friends and they suggested we needed to bleed the clutch more, but it just doesn't seem like that's it! I should go out and take a picture of the slave cylinder at full disengage and maybe someone can recognize if it's not going far enough back or something.

I read on a forum post I came across from 2010 that there's maintenance access covers on the transmission. The only reference I can find too, and no details on how to remove it or where it's at.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2014, 06:15 AM
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I haven't bled a clutch in a long time, so I am just going from memory here and what you have written. if you hold the clutch pedal down, does it retain pressure? How far does the slave cylinder rod / clutch fork travel when the clutch pedal is pressed, and is it enough? was the car parked because of a bad clutch? Are any of the rubber lines between the master and slave cylinders blocked inside, and are the master and slave cylinders good?

Hope this helps with tackling the problem.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2014, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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I forgot to grab pictures of the clutch operation while I was out there!

I'll try and diagram up how the clutch pedal feels. I'm not sure its right.

|------------------------------| travel
|--|------------------------|--|
^ ^ norm pressure ^
stiffer no pressure

Best I can describe it. For the first inch there's no feedback, the rest of the way there's feedback, then at the very end there's even more feeback (it's noticeable). It makes me wonder if it's bled right.

As far as the slave cylinder rod and the clutch fork, it appears to be going back far enough (to the stop) but maybe it's not and we're none the wiser.

I do not know, the car was traded in to a dealership in August 2011, I heard the PO was a friend of the owner is why it was traded in, it sat in their backlot that entire time.

Rubber lines are a maybe, should check those next! No external leaking from either slave or master cylinder so possible internal but still doesn't explain how the slave cylinder is pushing the clutch seemingly all the way back!

History:
1987 W124 300D 6cyl Turbo (2005-2008), 2005 VW Jetta GLS 2.0L (2008-present), 1966 W110 200D, M121/Weber 32/36 DGEV swap (2014)

You've heard that voice for so long, you believe it to be you. You believe it to be your best friend.
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The greatest con, that he ever pulled, was making you believe that 'he is you.'
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2014, 12:07 PM
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Sounds to me like the master or slave or both may be leaking internally. If it were me, I would replace both, along with the flexible line.

It takes a lot of pressure to release the clutch, by not much to return the pedal, so the seals may hold enough pressure to allow the pedal to be pushed back.

Never had a problem bleeding the clutch with just a pressure bleeder connected to the reservoir.

Cheers,

CT

Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
1998 SL500
1959 220S
1970 280SL
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2014, 05:26 PM
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With the clutch depressed and a rear tire raised in gear, (Car off) can you rotate the tire? I would suspect the hydraulic hose from the master to the slave being restricted. Both the clutch and brakes share a common master cylinder so bleeding the brakes at each wheel should purge all the air unless the hose to the slave is restricted trapping air. If the brakes work fine then the master should be OK.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2014, 07:08 PM
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the best way to bleed a clutch is from the bottom up .use a CLEAN oil can [ trigger type ]and a piece of vacuum hose ]. empty reservoir at top .connect can at bottom cylinder , open bleeder and pump oil can .[ make sure pedal is up ] .when reservoir is fill , you should have a good pedal .
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-24-2014, 01:02 AM Thread Starter
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All great ideas and info. I'll be sure to try some of this stuff next time I'm out there.

Just to clarify, in this picture in front of the brake booster is the brake fluid reservoir. Just to the right of this (just out of frame of course) is a smaller reservoir for the clutch fluid correct?


History:
1987 W124 300D 6cyl Turbo (2005-2008), 2005 VW Jetta GLS 2.0L (2008-present), 1966 W110 200D, M121/Weber 32/36 DGEV swap (2014)

You've heard that voice for so long, you believe it to be you. You believe it to be your best friend.
Where's the best place an opponent should hide? In the very last place you would ever look.
The greatest con, that he ever pulled, was making you believe that 'he is you.'
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-25-2014, 06:09 PM
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Yes that will be the clutch fluid reservoir.
Agillot has described the clutch bleeding procedure which works very well.
I use a pressure bleeder on the slave cylinder to bleed ,works very well.

Last edited by adler; 03-25-2014 at 06:18 PM.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-25-2014, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Oh that's a good idea emptying it first and pumping fluid from the bottom only. I'm sure my dad has an oil can like that lying around!

Next after clutch will be pulling apart the head and inspecting the cylinder rings as as I'm hearing might be my issue with cylinder #2
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-25-2014, 10:27 PM
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#2 cyl, what is the issue ,sound?
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