66 200D clutch bled but not disengaging - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-28-2014, 12:30 PM
KCM
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Originally Posted by amotion578 View Post
Oh so THAT'S what that is! I wondered. Yeah I read up what the differences were, seems like turn signal location on the fenders, motor displacement and available options were the major ones. I haven't seen any mention of four on the floor transmission options prior to 1965!
The 200/200D was the "Made for USA" version, while the 190c/190Dc was mostly a euro converted for US driving, hence the fender mounted turn signals. The 190Dc and 200D were actually the same displacement, but the 190Dc had a 3 main bearing crankshaft, and the 200D had 5 bearings. There were misc. trim differences, such as on the rear with different taillights/trim and the vents behind the rear doors, misc. body part differences (though the main panels will interchange), and misc. mechanical changes (diesels for sure had a rear end ratio change). The floor shift, from what I can tell, was an option phased in starting in 1965/66 with the 200. Seems like more had the floor shift towards the end of the W110 production, but I don't think it was ever standard.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-30-2014, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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^ excellent info! Copy pasted this update from TCL:

Yesterday:

We came to the conclusion the clutch issue might be the clutch was stuck against the pressure plate. So we pushed the car out of the garage and started it in first. No problems, let out the clutch and away I went! Went up the (private) street, found out the speedometer works, and I might have been too low of a speed for 2nd but it was bucking like crazy. Reverse however will not go into gear while the car is running without some force and a little grinding. As I discovered when my dad hopped in and drove it forwards and backwards a few times (and one time sat there grinding on reverse for a few minutes and all I can think is "thanks dad, let's just go ahead and grind down reverse gear to sh*t in a 48 year old car..." :facepalm: )

I reckon the transmission fluid might be dry or low. Hasn't been checked. Did searches and found the recommended oil for this transmission is ATF... specifically GM ATF as it has a 2 cSt higher grade than normal ATF. :screwy: my dad happens to have some lying around so tonight after work we'll drain the trans and put new stuff in. Might as well do the differential too which I read takes SAE 90 gear oil!

The fact that I got to drive her up the street and back (albeit on 3 cylinders and idling too low lol) was a huge boost in morale, there's definitely some hub or brake catching problems in the front, quite a bit of resistance there!

Stay tuned.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2014, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Update:

So we ran a compression test on all 4 cylinders and got 150psi on 1/4 and 180psi on 2/3. We're suspecting the carb is in need of rebuilding (it's leaky looking and gray smoke shoots out of it/the air filter when you blip the throttle on misfire/backfire).

As for the clutch issue, we've rebled the clutch twice now and still reverse refuses to engage while the car is running (grinds), however if you start the car in reverse gear, it doesn't move when the clutch is to the floor. Riddle me that one! All forward gears work with a bit of force (you really gotta put your arm into it, only when the car is running again).

In addition, the clutch begins to engage about a 1/4" off the floor (figure that is just an adjustment issue, could that be related to reverse perhaps?)

Lastly, I scored a slave cylinder brand new from my work for a super discounted price and I'm looking at picking up a master here soon. I understand I should also replace the flex pipe between the slave/master, will any rubber tubing work or is it special stuff?

History:
1987 W124 300D 6cyl Turbo (2005-2008), 2005 VW Jetta GLS 2.0L (2008-present), 1966 W110 200D, M121/Weber 32/36 DGEV swap (2014)

You've heard that voice for so long, you believe it to be you. You believe it to be your best friend.
Where's the best place an opponent should hide? In the very last place you would ever look.
The greatest con, that he ever pulled, was making you believe that 'he is you.'
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2014, 11:43 PM
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Interesting.
I am going through a Similar
engine diagnosis on a spare 130 engine I have. It backfires on opening the throttle. I have substituted the carbs, manifold and new ignition system finally checked valve timing as well. Still carbs backfire on acceleration.
Let's see how you fare on tracing the elusive fault.
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-17-2014, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adler View Post
Interesting.
I am going through a Similar
engine diagnosis on a spare 130 engine I have. It backfires on opening the throttle. I have substituted the carbs, manifold and new ignition system finally checked valve timing as well. Still carbs backfire on acceleration.
Let's see how you fare on tracing the elusive fault.
Ooooof. I didn't want to hear that!

The other theory is there could be a cam problem (flat lobe). Really hoping that's not the case!

History:
1987 W124 300D 6cyl Turbo (2005-2008), 2005 VW Jetta GLS 2.0L (2008-present), 1966 W110 200D, M121/Weber 32/36 DGEV swap (2014)

You've heard that voice for so long, you believe it to be you. You believe it to be your best friend.
Where's the best place an opponent should hide? In the very last place you would ever look.
The greatest con, that he ever pulled, was making you believe that 'he is you.'
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-17-2014, 03:45 PM
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As most of the suspect items have been checked next the manifold will be removed,carbs bases refaced as well as the manifold mounting surface. Mine is a m130 six cylinder engine
and a spare unit. See 'cylinder head M130.
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-17-2014, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by amotion578 View Post
As for the clutch issue, we've rebled the clutch twice now and still reverse refuses to engage while the car is running (grinds), however if you start the car in reverse gear, it doesn't move when the clutch is to the floor. Riddle me that one! All forward gears work with a bit of force (you really gotta put your arm into it, only when the car is running again).

In addition, the clutch begins to engage about a 1/4" off the floor (figure that is just an adjustment issue, could that be related to reverse perhaps?)
Sounds like your clutch still is not releasing completely. Only 1/4" from the floor is not enough before it starts to engage. You are getting partial disengagement, but the disc is still dragging on the flywheel and pressure plate, causing the transmssion input shaft to still turn. This is why you get grinding or have to jam it into gear.

Maybe you have already done this, but the first adjustment is to adjust the play in the release bearing fork. To do this, make sure the slave cylinder is retracted completely. Then remove the return spring. Move the fork back and forth where the slave cylinder pushes it. You will feel when the release bearing contacts the pressure plate when you pull it away from the slave cylinder. There needs to be some slop or the release bearing will constantly contact the pressure plate, which will wear out the bearing. Adjust the slave cylinder push rod until you get enough play. I don't know the exact number off-hand, but I would give it around 1/4". Then reinstall the spring.
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 08:37 AM
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Is your car column shift or floor shift? If it is column shift, look at the bushing on the column shifter lever, and then also at the nylon washers that go on either side of the steering bearing housing. On my car replacing the (missing, disintergrated, etc) bushing and spacers caused the transmission to go into reverse much easier. But now that I write this, I think that is not the problem. You are "finding" reverse and it is grinding. My problem is it wasn't finding the gears well... But I also have a mushy sloppy clutch and think that I have internal leaking in the master....

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoot View Post
Is your car column shift or floor shift? If it is column shift, look at the bushing on the column shifter lever, and then also at the nylon washers that go on either side of the steering bearing housing. On my car replacing the (missing, disintergrated, etc) bushing and spacers caused the transmission to go into reverse much easier. But now that I write this, I think that is not the problem. You are "finding" reverse and it is grinding. My problem is it wasn't finding the gears well... But I also have a mushy sloppy clutch and think that I have internal leaking in the master....
It's a floor shift.

I ordered a new master cylinder yesterday and it should be here by next Tuesday. Along with a new slave cylinder which I already have! While I replace both of those I'll also check out the flex pipe and see if that's dirty or clogged up.

History:
1987 W124 300D 6cyl Turbo (2005-2008), 2005 VW Jetta GLS 2.0L (2008-present), 1966 W110 200D, M121/Weber 32/36 DGEV swap (2014)

You've heard that voice for so long, you believe it to be you. You believe it to be your best friend.
Where's the best place an opponent should hide? In the very last place you would ever look.
The greatest con, that he ever pulled, was making you believe that 'he is you.'
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 11:23 AM
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Rubber pipe likely internally collapsed with age happens with brake pipes too as they swell.
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