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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-13-2013, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldbaum View Post
I did look at many pages of technical posts on International 190SL Group Forums. They seem to stoically accept the seemingly outrageous parts costs like $7500 genuine Mercedes remote brake booster and emptying of the engine compartment to access various brake and chassis parts. It my age I'd like to find less strenuous and expensive ways to get my wife safely back on the road in this car she loves.
Ray W
Like many other automotive forums, Technical Help is populated by many types with varying degrees of knowledge, ability and checkbooks. You alone are responsible for the route you take toward the result you desire.

Let me assure you that a brake booster rebuild kit is available for a fraction of the cost you quoted - it takes some time and ability to install, but is quite doable. Your comment about the life of brake hoses does trouble me since I've never found any appreciable difference between those used on M-B vehicles or any other car. Ten years seems like a reasonable replacement schedule for such critical parts.

All in all, although the instant forum will be welcoming to you, the 190 SL Group is a repository of much more specialized knowledge that will help you most quickly in getting back on the road - simply choose your advice wisely and appropriately consistent with your personal skill level.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-13-2013, 08:10 AM
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Hi Ray and others, you guys seem much more familiar with meredes than I am. So let me throw this question out there and any help will be appreciated....
I have a 1990 Mercedes 300SL and it starts up fine. But after 30 minutes or so it starts to sputter and popping sound from exhaust pipe and then vehicle stalls. I can wait several hours and it will start up just fine and continue the same 30 minute stalling process.
Thanks,
Chad
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-13-2013, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Vehicle: 1961 190SL
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DirectLA,

Thank you for the compliment on my wife's 190sl. Having restored my '36 chevy pickup that was minus a few critical parts when I got it I do appreciate the completeness of Laura's 190sl. The driver's side mirror that is not in the photo was removed so it would be out of harm's way for now. It even has both tops intact.

As for your '36 GMC pickup there are a couple of resources I can offer you if you give me an email address to send them to. One is an article I wrote about unlisted but real parts interchanges that was published in the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America May 2009 magazine. The other is a how-to article I wrote on the 4.11 to 3.55 rear gear ratio conversion that was published in the 1936 Chevy Owners forum. That forum welcomes 1936 GMC owners too. A 1936 pickup driven only for pleasure benefits from the numerically lower gear ratio in reduced interior noise and slightly (about 17%) greater ability to keep up with the flow of traffic. It's still not ready for the Bonneville salt flats but can now be driven at least in the slow lane on the freeway. The challenge in making that conversion is that the OEM 1936 gears are spiral bevel and the 3.55 gears from a '50-'54 Chevy car are hypoid, requiring a hypoid rear axle housing.

Cerick305,

I'm a geologist, not a professional mechanic but I have found that a lot of basic principles apply to engines whether they are in a rototiller, motorcycle, Chevy or Mercedes. The symptom you describe of stalling after being thououghly warmed up makes me suspect a faulty ignition coil. I've now been driving for almost 53 years and in that time I've had a few cols fail. In fact I just replaced the coil on my '36 Chevy pickup and that cured a hot starting problem. They do fail. That is a good spare part to carry in any event in case of a failure in the field. My suggestion would be to try your spare if you have one and if you don't have one get a spare and try it. In all my toys I carry a spare fan belt, ignition coil, fuel pump and ignition points or ignition control module and the tools to install them.

Ejboyd5,

Thank you for your input. Your comment that M-B brake hoses should be no more failure prone than those on other vehicles matches exactly what I was told by a local, long established, very competent wheel and brake supply center near my home. They are the same guys who advised me to try asbestos friction on another of my toys (the hot rod in the picture) before resorting to pricey ceramic or kevlar friction. They even found me the asbestos pads and shoes, no small accomplishment since asbestos friction has been out of production since the late 1970s. Their advice turned out to be excellent because the switch from "organic" to asbestos friction was like adding a power booster. I'd forgotten how effective asbestos friction is in brake and clutch components. That same brake supply center also identified my 190sl remote booster as a Midland part, verified that the company in Sacramento California that rebuilds boosters has the parts for it and sent it over to Sacramento for a $220 rebuild. I probably couldn't even find a rebuild kit for that price based on the research I've done.

Ray W
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-13-2013, 12:42 PM
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Vehicle: 1968 250S, 1991 300se, 1998 SL500, 2x 1977 450SEL 6.9. Past MB's; 300SD, 300E, 300TE, 190E, ML420
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Hi Cerick

You will find what you need to know on the R129 forum for your
SL300. I watch there also as I have a SL500. Also please start a new thread for you questions there, this thread is about a 190SL, which is here because of how old it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cerick305 View Post
Hi Ray and others, you guys seem much more familiar with meredes than I am. So let me throw this question out there and any help will be appreciated....
I have a 1990 Mercedes 300SL and it starts up fine. But after 30 minutes or so it starts to sputter and popping sound from exhaust pipe and then vehicle stalls. I can wait several hours and it will start up just fine and continue the same 30 minute stalling process.
Thanks,
Chad
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-13-2013, 12:46 PM
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Vehicle: 1959 220S cabriolet, 1983 240D original owner, 1999 E300 turbo diesel, 1988 560SL, 2003 SLK320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldbaum View Post
"i wonder about the $ 4.00 wheel cylinders"

Oops. That was a typo. I meant wheel cylinder kits.

Ray W
The wheel cylinders on your car may be the only thing that isn't metric, thus the ability to find SAE/US rebuild kits. They are commonly available at NAPA stores too. I'm not an absolute/total purist, but it would be a shame to bastardize that beauty too much IMO. But the bottom line is it's your car and you need to do what you feel is best for you.

Len
'59 220S Cabriolet - for sale - http://www.mbzponton.org/mbz220s/sellswap/car4sale.htm
'83 240D original owner 351,500 miles - for sale - http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123...g-my-240d.html
'88 560SL 41,000 miles being parted out - https://sites.google.com/site/mercedesstuff/home
'99 E300 turbo 196,000 miles
'03 SLK320 34,500 miles
'14 Smart electric
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-16-2013, 11:18 PM
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Vehicle: anywhere from '52 300 to 1990 560SEL,and a '93300TE nothing newer, too much trouble....
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Welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldbaum View Post
Now I'm going to look for alternative brake flex lines that aren't throw away after a few years.

Are any of the others of you of a similar mind in looking for ways to make these cars easier to live with at the expense of authenticity or would that be an unwelcome pursuit. I really want your honest opinions.

Thanks!

Ray Waldbaum
Welcome Waldbaum
You seem to know your way around cars.
I am intrigued by your adeptness to make other parts work on the 190SL.
I have several old Mercedes and wouldn't mind finding more reasonable solutions for my car repairs.
Those wheel cylinder kits for starters and the Raybestos rebuild for the brake booster as well.
I can possibly help with parts sources specificly Mercedes when needed.

Alex
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-17-2013, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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(Thread Starter)
"Welcome Waldbaum
You seem to know your way around cars.
I am intrigued by your adeptness to make other parts work on the 190SL.
I have several old Mercedes and wouldn't mind finding more reasonable solutions for my car repairs.
Those wheel cylinder kits for starters and the Raybestos rebuild for the brake booster as well.
I can possibly help with parts sources specificly Mercedes when needed."


Thank you for that welcome Alex. I am a product of the Southern California car culture that I grew up in in the 1950s and 1960s. There is a particular incident that affected me when I was a teenager that has stayed with me for over 50 years.

I had a neighbor/friend who had an automotive engine shop. On my way home from school I used to stop by that shop regularly to see what was going on. One day a Model A Ford engine was being rebuilt and my friend explained that he used then current Oldsmobile pistons in Model A engines instead of expensive original or expensive reproduction Ford pistons. I blurted out "You can use Oldsmobile pistons in a Ford" and his response forever changed the way I look at automotive endeavors - "Why not?"

So, when I began this 190SL "get it running" project I brought that attitude with me. In looking at what needs to be done I am looking for the most efficient approach that will in no way diminsh the value and safety of the car. I realize that this is an enthusiasts' forum and one should not criticize the objects that one is supposed to be enthusiastic about. However the 1961 190SL that I am working on exhibits some major design defects that tells me that it might have been an OK prototype but it was nowhere ready for production. Here are some examples I've discovered in just looking at the brake system and fan belt. I expect to find more as I get deeper into this project.

The engine must be raised to allow fan belt removal because the harmonic damper/lower pulley is too close to the front cross member to allow belt removal.

In order to pull the starter to inspect and replace if necessary the bearings and/or bushings and brushes my research indicates that either the generator and induction system has to be removed or the generator has to be removed then the engine has to be loosened from its mounts then raised and tilted and a suspension component has to be removed. On every other car or truck I have ever worked on if you want to pull the starter you simply remove the battery ground cable, the wires at the starter then unbolt it. That a difference between 1/2 hour and 1/2 day of mechanic fees for the average motorist.

The flexible brake hoses are apparently made of a material that is incompatible with brake fluid and they swell shut and fail. In 50+ years of car maintenance, tinkering, street rod building and restoration I have never heard of this. My 1971 Dodge van that I bought new has the original brake hoses and the 1936 Chevy pickup that I restored in the mid 1970s has the hoses I installed new then, all working perfectly.

Some of the flexible brake line connections are very difficult to access.

I am going to figure out the most effective ways to deal with these kind of problems and I'll happily share what seems to work and I will gratefully accept suggestions from other forum members who are experienced in these cars. From what I see it is just plain old bad design that paints the mechanic/restorer into a corner with these inherent design defects.

I'm not a mechanical engineer but I notice that the front wheel bearings are supposed to be set up with zero end play on this car according to Factory MB shop manual information obtained from my local public library. Every other car, truck and trailer wheel bearing adjustment I have ever made required a specified amount of end play to compensate for the fact that braking heat causes the hub to elongate slightly, increasing the distance between the bearings, thus reducing/eliminating end play. Although adjusted according to the MB method, the outer wheel bearings on my wife's 190SL showed discoloration consistent with having been overheated when I removed all the bearings to clean and relubricate them. Also, the washer between the outer bearing and the adjusting nut does not have a tang that engages the spindle to keep it from being spun by the outer bearing and it has obviously been spun and scored.

Alex, if you know of modern brake flexible hoses from a dependable supplier (Raybestos, EIS, Wagner, etc) that will fit and are not damaged by brake fluid I would really appreciate knowing about them. Thank you for your kind offer to share parts information.

Ray W
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-18-2013, 12:16 AM
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All good

Ray

Interesting to hear that you came from So.Cal.
It seems like everybody is migrating north, but me.
But we'll save that thought for another day.

It seems like only yesterday that I bought my first Mercedes and started repairing it since my finances did not allow for professional help.
That was 30 + years ago.....

I am severely biased towards Mercedes cars and think their designs are better than most contemporary cars at the time.
Of course that means after some 30-50 years even those designs and ideas had to be improved.

I vaguely remember struggling with a starter removal on a close relative to your car a 1958 220S sedan.
The Mercedes workshop manual however was describing a solution other than what you suggested.
However that was decades ago and I would have to read up on it.

Although I do enjoy working on these cars it always seemed easier to find and buy another one, be it for restaurtion or as parts cars, so my hobby has really turned into a BIG 'enterprise'.....
More on that later.

Thanks for the reply,
I will keep checking this thread and possibly send PMs not to clog up 'your' 190SL thread.

Alex
I am in the desert north of L.A.

Last edited by 6punkt3; 05-18-2013 at 12:18 AM. Reason: spelling
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