Time to share my project - Page 22 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #211 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Aug 2010
Vehicle: '84 Euro 500SE, '85 Euro 2.3-16, '51 Euro 170S, '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport, '08 BMW Z4 3.0si, '09 E350
Location: San Antonio, Texas/Gulf Breeze, Florida/Neustadt a.d. Aisch, Deutschland
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Updates!

I've been pulling more of the interior apart, and I've primed the front fenders for painting.

I figured out the best way to remove the door handles using a pin punch to gently tap it loose, then use the punch leverage to gently turn until the handles pull out. Easy and no damage done.

This was a shot from yesterday:



It's been forced to sit outside for a couple of days due to the shop owner taking on more clients, but it'll be back in soon to start a few things here and there.

To my surprise, when I pulled off the door panels, I found the driver's side window perfectly intact! It's got some scratches, but I haven't given it a good cleaning to see just how bad it is. On the bright side, I can get the window glued back on to the mount and get the mount back in place on the regulator to have a functioning window again to keep the elements out!

I'm having issues getting the radio out, but that wasn't my focus today. I'm trying to get all the mudgobber nests out!
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16
'84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles
'51 Euro 170S *Being reborn*
'97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles
'08 BMW Z4 3.0 si ~14.3k miles
'09 E350 ~51k miles
'98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8

~Josh
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post #212 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 05:34 PM
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Date registered: Jun 2011
Vehicle: 2008 CLS63 AMG, 1969 Plymouth GTX, like a Roadrunner, but better
Location: Tucson, AZ
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Have you decided what power plant you are going to use? I just hope it's at least German branded.

Karl M.
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post #213 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Aug 2010
Vehicle: '84 Euro 500SE, '85 Euro 2.3-16, '51 Euro 170S, '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport, '08 BMW Z4 3.0si, '09 E350
Location: San Antonio, Texas/Gulf Breeze, Florida/Neustadt a.d. Aisch, Deutschland
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Originally Posted by comm-tech View Post
Have you decided what power plant you are going to use? I just hope it's at least German branded.

Karl M.
Karl,

I haven't, but with little local availability of Mercedes motors and manual transmissions, it's going to require sourcing them out of state, which prolongs the process of getting the car moving.

Any I6 or even I5 for a diesel will be too long to fit unless I cut into the firewall, which I don't want to do. The M102 in my 190E measures nearly 31" across at the front, where I realistically have maybe 2/3 of that space. Exhaust headers and the intake manifold would all have to be a custom job, and then there's the air filter setup to think about. I'm incredibly limited on space. A W187 would lend itself much better to larger motor choices. The issue with a V6 is that the steering needs to be fiddled with, and there's a width issue once again unless I set the motor further back, which decreases cabin space for the driver and front passenger.

The only solution is a smaller and more modern I4, which leaves me with a lot of choices that aren't German. The CIS system really takes up too much space, and unless I go EFI, that pretty much eliminates that motor. I can look for a BMW motor again, but that'll be something I have to find out of state as well, or at least out of town.

This hasn't been an easy decision; in fact, it's taken two years to figure out what the hell to use. $5000 for a non-running original motor is NOT worth it to me. The power it makes is also far too little to deal with the traffic habits of Texans who are always in a hurry, even on Sundays.

Now that I've started taking more pieces of the car, I need to find a way to repair the driver's side exterior door handle (it just spins around 360* when turned) or source a replacement. Trunk lock and handle also need to be replaced as the handle has literally been broken off.

Another thing I'll need to figure out is how to best recarpet the interior.

'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16
'84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles
'51 Euro 170S *Being reborn*
'97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles
'08 BMW Z4 3.0 si ~14.3k miles
'09 E350 ~51k miles
'98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8

~Josh
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post #214 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 10:35 PM
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Date registered: Jun 2011
Vehicle: 2008 CLS63 AMG, 1969 Plymouth GTX, like a Roadrunner, but better
Location: Tucson, AZ
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$5000 for a NON running engine? = Holy bat stink. Check out ridesafely.com (RideSafely | Buy used and salvage vehicles at wholesale cost). Mostly wrecked and salvage vehicles. If it's smashed you don't really care. And there are more than a few aftermarket EFI controllers that will run coil on plug ignition systems (F.A.S.T., and MegaSquirt both come to mind). These are PC programmable. So you don't need to invest $5K in a Star system thingy.

I'd stay away from the CIS anyway. Dirty system. Sure it works, but true EFI is soooo much nicer.

The 170s bonnet area is really that short? Man, it looks like there should be plenty of room for a I6. There is a wrecking yard here in Tucson that has a number of Benzes. If I get some time next week I'll take a ride down there. Or don't be afraid to buy even a decent car to scavenge the engine from if that's what it takes. Even if the engine alone is worth the price of the car, hell, just offer to give away the parts you don't want. Like being an organ donor. And I'm sure that if your prices are reasonable, you should be able to recoupe some of your money. Just think that that one car, will help a number of others survive. So, if you find a good deal, just get it.

I'm working on an upfit of my 69 GTX to a late model GenIII hemi. So, I'll have to deal with some of the same hurdles that you are. Except for the space issue. There is enough room for the new hemi under the hood. So at least I don't have to sweat that. And I can buy mounts that make it a bolt in. But I have to get the current occupant evicted (big 440) and get a couple of engines washed out inside (another 440 and the 5.7L hemi that I bought) to really get the project going again. (This project although still drivable, has been stalled for like 12 years, so I get the lack of initiative thing. But the 68-69 GTX is my #1 favorite car of all time, so even though I've perodically thought about offing the project, I just think about what it would take to get another one, and I WOULD just have to get another).

Karl
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post #215 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-11-2014, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Aug 2010
Vehicle: '84 Euro 500SE, '85 Euro 2.3-16, '51 Euro 170S, '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport, '08 BMW Z4 3.0si, '09 E350
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I'll give that a look and see what I can find. I'm finding myself needing lots of rubber bits and pieces around the windows and doors. With the exception of the driver's side window, all the window brackets that the glass is placed in are all rusted through.

I managed to get the driver's side window back in, but as there's nothing to hold it to the metal bracket, it moves and jostles around as you manipulate the regulator. The regulators are actually in good shape, they'll benefit from a good cleaning and greasing.

For the time being I'd just like to get the car running so I can get it home. Then I can take the motor back out and go through the whole body. Once I've installed it all for the first time, I'll be familiar enough with it to take it apart again. I also don't want to run the risk of having to cut and weld on a freshly painted frame or body because I decided to do that first.

This is certainly a labor of love, but I look forward to it at least being able to drive.

There is definitely no room for an I6; it looks like it could fit, but not without a lot of work! I'll deal with the fuel injection as needed, but CIS doesn't scare me off, it's just massive on some of these MB motors. I also want to be able to tie into using the original gauges, but I'll need to source a new clock, or find a way to have mine refinished.

Lots and lots of stuff to do, and it's hard when you're the only one doing it! My dad's never been a handy guy; those genes skipped a generation. I have no siblings or other family nearby either, since this was our last PCS before my dad retired. People my age around here have other interests, or they're into the whole ricer deal or don't know shit.

I'd ask my uncle for advice and all that (he's a master mechanic for MB back in Germany), but I want to keep this on the downlow from that side of the family until it's pretty much finished. I want it to be a surprise.

'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16
'84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles
'51 Euro 170S *Being reborn*
'97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles
'08 BMW Z4 3.0 si ~14.3k miles
'09 E350 ~51k miles
'98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8

~Josh
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post #216 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Aug 2010
Vehicle: '84 Euro 500SE, '85 Euro 2.3-16, '51 Euro 170S, '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport, '08 BMW Z4 3.0si, '09 E350
Location: San Antonio, Texas/Gulf Breeze, Florida/Neustadt a.d. Aisch, Deutschland
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Did not get a chance to get out to the car at all today. Spent the day organizing my W201 parts stash and giving away what I don't need.

I'm going to get in touch with the classic center to see if rubber is still available; I just know it's gonna be pricey.

'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16
'84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles
'51 Euro 170S *Being reborn*
'97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles
'08 BMW Z4 3.0 si ~14.3k miles
'09 E350 ~51k miles
'98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8

~Josh
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post #217 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-13-2014, 12:08 PM
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Date registered: Jun 2011
Vehicle: 2008 CLS63 AMG, 1969 Plymouth GTX, like a Roadrunner, but better
Location: Tucson, AZ
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Try Metro Rubber (https://www.metrommp.com/) for the rubber gaskets and window channel stuff. IF you can find true reproductions of the original MB stuff that would probably be better, but keep in mind at that time a lot of that kind of stuff was just bulk extruded rubber. Not like the molded stuff like they use today. So you might find something from Metro that is close that will work

Looks like the only engine available in the 170S was an ~ 1.8L I 4. (I thought that an I6 was and available engine in that chassis.) So, just how much room is available under the hood? What are the constraining dimensions? Uh, ok, looking at this cutaway view (http://allcarznews.com/data_images/m...nz-170--10.jpg) sure is an "AH HA" moment and really shows the space constraint front to rear that you have to deal with. Wow, for such a long front end, that's pretty tight.

I've been planning to do my 69 GTX for over a decade now. The decision to use a Gen III hemi was kind of a recent move though. Believe me, thought about bailing more than a couple of times and just getting something newer that's really cool like an CLS63 AMG or an E63 AMG (drove one of those, wow). (Still planning on a CLS though at some time.) However a discussion with the guy that I'm going to have do the body/paint work got my enthusiasm up again. Looks like it's going to cost a lot less than I was planning on (it is REALLY hard to set aside $30,000 in cash for a paint job and body work). But a couple of things came to mind. First, the thought of working over/around $10,000 of fresh paint while doing a big mod like this is scary. Then I came across a deal on a complete 5.7L hemi (all accessories included) out of a car. That got me thinking that I'd change direction and get the car setup and running with the updated engine and drive train. And at least be able to drive/enjoy it until I'm ready for the next step. Also, that way if I drill/cut holes and then decide that I wanted it somewhere else the body guy can deal with my mistakes and fix them before paint. And then when it comes back from the body/paint work, all I'll have to do is put it back together. Anyway, I don't have the under hood space limitations that you have.

BUT, ANY progress is better than no progress, regardless of the direction you take on it.

So, lessee, you graduated high school in 09, you're like 24, eh? Hmmmm, lots of folks your age just aren't into the mechanical stuff I guess. Just tech stuff, huh? I've been alone my whole adult life. No family since I was 21. So I have to do everything all by myself. Get used to it. Don't let that stop you from chasing a dream or goal. Just be self sufficient. Besides, in reality, what difference is having someone else there going to make? Sure it's good to have help around, but unless you are handling big parts or doors, it really isn't going to matter.

Karl M.
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post #218 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-13-2014, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Aug 2010
Vehicle: '84 Euro 500SE, '85 Euro 2.3-16, '51 Euro 170S, '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport, '08 BMW Z4 3.0si, '09 E350
Location: San Antonio, Texas/Gulf Breeze, Florida/Neustadt a.d. Aisch, Deutschland
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Karl,

Thanks for that site! I've been asking questions over at 170220.org since I first really started this, and it's a pretty inactive bored. A lot of my questions tend to go unanswered.

I'd figured I could get away with cutting my own rubber gaskets and trim pieces as needed, so it's good to know that may be an option.

Yup, and that I4 is pretty tiny and gutless! The W187 is what had the options for the I6, the M180 to be exact. Nearly 2.2L. But yeah, the space I have to work with and the work involved to fit something bigger could make a person cry.

I'm not concerned about the paint being top-notch, plus I want to learn how to do it, and you've gotta start somewhere. I know that if I prep it right, take my time, and ensure proper painting conditions it'll turn out great. I actually would like to separate the chassis from the drivetrain, but I've no means to lift it off. I'll likely be doing that in the future well after the car is back on the road. The only thing I'll need a body guy for is that damage on the rear. It seems to me like the vehicle was lifted improperly and dropped onto something. That or it was backed into something, but the trunklid itself is in perfect shape.

I agree with you on any progress being progress. I really just want to enjoy this classic car!

Yup, you're right on that. I'm one of the younger folks to frequent these boards. While I enjoy the tech stuff (it's what I do for a business) the mechanical side of things has always fascinated me. I guess for me the idea of sharing the accomplishment of this project with someone was something I would have enjoyed, but I will take pride in it even if I do it all on my own! I've come this far on my own, and I maintain and do the big jobs on the other cars all on my own too.

Sometime this week, I'm going to get the rest of the interior out and see if there's anything else I need to be concerned with. If not, I'll prime the floor panels too.

'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16
'84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles
'51 Euro 170S *Being reborn*
'97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles
'08 BMW Z4 3.0 si ~14.3k miles
'09 E350 ~51k miles
'98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8

~Josh
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post #219 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 11:11 AM
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Date registered: Jun 2011
Vehicle: 2008 CLS63 AMG, 1969 Plymouth GTX, like a Roadrunner, but better
Location: Tucson, AZ
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Yup, I guess the W187 is what I was thinking about. They both are on a 112" wheelbase. After doing an image search on both, I couldn't tell the difference if I was standing between one of each. So what is so different on the W187 that allows for the I6? Until I saw that cutaway view of the W136 I had no idea of the small area you have to work with. You have the 190E to measure, would that engine fit? At least length wise? Custom brackets can be made for mounting accessories like an alternator/generator if need be. And I'd guess that any upgrades like power steering and A/C are out of the question.

Karl M.
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post #220 of 225 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Aug 2010
Vehicle: '84 Euro 500SE, '85 Euro 2.3-16, '51 Euro 170S, '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport, '08 BMW Z4 3.0si, '09 E350
Location: San Antonio, Texas/Gulf Breeze, Florida/Neustadt a.d. Aisch, Deutschland
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It's funny that they should have the same wheelbase as the nose of the W187 sticks out a few inches further, and is about 2" inches wider. I've seen both in person, and there is a verifiable difference. The W187 appears longer and more "stately", whereas the W136 appears like a slightly smaller, more toned-down version.

I've measure my M102 in the 190E, and lengthwise and even height wise it's good, but the width with the exhaust headers and the CIS contraption really makes this thing incredibly wide. Almost three feet. At the tip of the W136 I have a little less than two feet to work with.

Not too concerned about modern upgrades, in fact, less is more in this case. The steering box in this car is actually pretty easy to turn (considering it hasn't been maintained in 40 years, I could only imagine how it'll feel when it's freshened up!). It's smooth going from lock to lock. In other applications it'll be a great forearm workout!

AC, despite the Texas heat, is also not something I'm too concerned with. The less I have to maintain and build in, the better.

'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16
'84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles
'51 Euro 170S *Being reborn*
'97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles
'08 BMW Z4 3.0 si ~14.3k miles
'09 E350 ~51k miles
'98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8

~Josh
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