Ideas on Engine Swap? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:34 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Grubeguy's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2006
Vehicle: 73 280SE 4.5, 71 300SEL, 03 BMW Z4, 72 Fiat 850, 80 Triumph TR7, 85 Porsche 911
Location: DC Area
Posts: 2,109
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to Grubeguy Send a message via Yahoo to Grubeguy
Sheesh, don't know why I didn't think of this - there's no reason to go all hell bent on a wiring harness for a car that doesn't need it. Go the carbureted route and worry only about the coil, plugs and starter...

Pics of my pop's car - I've got some of the exterior and maybe a few of the interior, but I'm not sure he has anything from the swap itself. I'll ask though.

I'll tell you he chose a 289 because of the oil pan architecture. Everything else was stock - steering, springs, etc. Only thing he really had to fabricate were the mounts, and then weld them in. He later swapped in a 3 speed Ford tranny with an overdrive, because RPMs on the highway were so high. The OD fixed that.
Grubeguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 02:20 PM
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
drew56cus's Avatar
 
Date registered: Oct 2006
Vehicle: 1965 220SE sedan (finnie) with 450SE conversion, 1964 220SE coupe project, 1966 300SE coupe
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Hi again,
Here is the thread I was talking about - 11 pages of goodness for you to go through. From memory, I put some pics of a 302W that I mocked up in my black car. Maybe some pics of a metallic blue finny with a nice 302W too. There were also links to a place in Australia that makes engine mount kits for them. Note that your engine bay is almost identical to a W108.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/vint...80se-w108.html

If the pics I speak of are not in here, give me a yell and I will dig them out again.

You need to decide if you want old-school carby (very simple) or more modern fuel injection. Wiring is nothing hard for the carby. Regardless, don't pull your loom out until you pick a fuel system and get specific advice - I wired my black car, and believe me I don't know what most gadgets do in the engine bay. I read the wiring diagrams for the W116 donor, the W108 loom, and merged the two together with a bit of advice from someone that knows the cars. And guess what - it started! But if you want to do a lexus or modern FI, perhaps allow $500 for a auto elec to visit.
If you go for a chev or ford, you should be able to get a modern carb that works pretty well - there are even FI kits now that bolt on where a carb should, need about 5 wires hooked up and no computer and off you go! If you are keen on that, a search through Rod and Custom magazines tech archives on their website will reveal some product features.

As good as my coupe looks, I would do the install first, get it going and de-bugged, then pull it apart for paint. There will be all sorts of things you need to do like throttle linkages, radiator mounts, fuel lines, handbrake mountings, battery tray etc that you will need to take care of. So the engine and trans will go in and out several times before you are done. On my black sedan, I actually drilled out the spot welds on the top radiator support panel and made it a bolt-in job so that I did not have to get such extreme angles with the engine in-and-outs. If you do this, pre-drill at least 4 holes before un-doing the spot welds to help line it up properly afterwards, otherwise you have trouble getting the bonnet to close nicely.

I wish i had have gone with the aluminium block now instead of the iron 450, as once combined with the high sidewall whitewall tyres, my black car has lost some of its nimbleness. So think about whether you like throwing a car into corners, or just want to cruise and occasionally gun it in a straight line. Mind you, I don't think a little windsor weighs too much?

Anyway, better get to work! This is much more interesting though!
See ya, Drew
drew56cus is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-02-2012, 12:29 AM
BenzWorld Junior Member
 
Date registered: Oct 2012
Vehicle: 1968 280S purchased new in August of '68 from Phil Smart M-B in Seattle, WA
Location: BELLINGHAM, WA
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
All of you from down under!! Your cars are upside down And are Right Hand Steering. What would work for you might not work up here. With the steering box on the right hand side the conflicts are different.
WALT
1erful is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-02-2012, 04:32 AM
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
drew56cus's Avatar
 
Date registered: Oct 2006
Vehicle: 1965 220SE sedan (finnie) with 450SE conversion, 1964 220SE coupe project, 1966 300SE coupe
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Good point Walt.
I can't comment on the chev motor, but I can say for sure that the Ford has trouble on both sides - if the steering box doesn't get you, the idler arm will! There used to be a US yahoo group years ago called the 302-351 engine swapers (sic) that showed conversions - they were having to play around with the steering too if they wanted to get the engine low in the bay. When I played with the 302W in my finnie, I could have put the starter motor on the other side but it still was a problem.
Cheers, Drew
drew56cus is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-02-2012, 05:32 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Grubeguy's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2006
Vehicle: 73 280SE 4.5, 71 300SEL, 03 BMW Z4, 72 Fiat 850, 80 Triumph TR7, 85 Porsche 911
Location: DC Area
Posts: 2,109
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to Grubeguy Send a message via Yahoo to Grubeguy
What about using a dry sump and keeping the engine a little higher?

I'll have to ask Dad, but I seem to remember him using an idler arm out of a Nash Rambler. He also talked about using one from a Benz 190, upside down. No clue if that would do the trick...
Grubeguy is offline  
post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-02-2012, 11:09 AM
GGR
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Apr 2006
Vehicle: W111 Coupe
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 1,205
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Hi,

I have no experience with US motors in MBs of that vintage, but I transplanted a 5.6 motor out a 560SEC into a W111 Coupe, a euro 5.0 into another W111 coupe and I am currently transplanting a 560SL motor into a W113 Pagoda.

The best motor for a transplant is an early euro 5.0 M117. It's a direct bolt on with the right combination of parts. Only fabrication is adapting some downpipes to connect with the rest of the exhaust. The K-jet system is very simple with no elecronics. These early euro 500 show up from time to time in junkyards, so it's not too expensive either. let me know if you want to go that route, I will give you the list of parts you should be looking for.

The good thing about these alloy 5.0 motors is that they are not heavier than the original L6 so there is no need to modify the suspension and the car keeps it's original balance.
GGR is offline  
post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-02-2012, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Junior Member
 
Date registered: Jul 2012
Vehicle: 1969 Mercedes 280SE
Location: Johnstown, Colorado
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
I dont mind putting the engine up a bit higher. I am not going to be road racing this thing. Ill have to check. I am hoping that a 302 will fit like a glove. But I wont know until I try it. I love that idea about removing the radiator support panel to make the ins and outs easier. I will definatley give that a go.
Mapes is offline  
post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-02-2012, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Junior Member
 
Date registered: Jul 2012
Vehicle: 1969 Mercedes 280SE
Location: Johnstown, Colorado
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGR View Post
Hi,

I have no experience with US motors in MBs of that vintage, but I transplanted a 5.6 motor out a 560SEC into a W111 Coupe, a euro 5.0 into another W111 coupe and I am currently transplanting a 560SL motor into a W113 Pagoda.

The best motor for a transplant is an early euro 5.0 M117. It's a direct bolt on with the right combination of parts. Only fabrication is adapting some downpipes to connect with the rest of the exhaust. The K-jet system is very simple with no elecronics. These early euro 500 show up from time to time in junkyards, so it's not too expensive either. let me know if you want to go that route, I will give you the list of parts you should be looking for.

The good thing about these alloy 5.0 motors is that they are not heavier than the original L6 so there is no need to modify the suspension and the car keeps it's original balance.
What kind of cost are we talking about here? Assuming I cant find one in a junk yard, where do I get one?
Mapes is offline  
post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-02-2012, 04:09 PM
BenzWorld Junior Member
 
Date registered: Oct 2012
Vehicle: 1968 280S purchased new in August of '68 from Phil Smart M-B in Seattle, WA
Location: BELLINGHAM, WA
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BenzFord Boyz (AKA WALT)

A long time ago I started an email site on MSN that was dedicated to swaping the Ford 302/351 Windsor engines into the 108-109 chassis. When MSN discontuned that service I tried to set up a similar site on yahoo thus the title BenzFord Boyz. The experience was not good thus only the members who had my email address at that time were able to keep in touch and continue the discussions about what worked and how they solved their problems.
When M-B installed the 3.5/4.5 V8s into the 111, 108/109 chassis they made some subtle changes to accommodate the V8. One was to move the power brake mount 2" to the left to clear the LH cam cover. Another was to change the idler arm mount and last but by no means least was they mounted the starter higher on the engine block. I know that there were more but my 73 years old memory just ain't what it used to be.
The biggest disadvantage to using a manual transmission is finding the proper M-B parts as not too many were imported that way and the clutch was hydraulically actuated.
I will be happy to post pictures if I can find them and there is any interest in seeing them.
WALT
1erful is offline  
post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-02-2012, 06:15 PM
GGR
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Apr 2006
Vehicle: W111 Coupe
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 1,205
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapes View Post
What kind of cost are we talking about here? Assuming I cant find one in a junk yard, where do I get one?
You have to look regularly on eBay and Craigslist. Ideal would be to find a totalled euro 500 as a complete car will save you a lot. Can't be that expensive.
GGR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Vintage Mercedes-Benz

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome