W111-109-108-113 Mods - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-21-2009, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Vehicle: Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 coupe, pagoda 230 SL '64, 500 E W124, CE 220 Cabrio, E 320 T W211, w126 6.0 AMG
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W111-109-108-113 Mods

The last year during the work on my 280 SE 3.5 Coupe I get i contact with several enthusiast which had modified her classic for personal taste.
In this thread I want to see all your mod you've made to your finny based cars. From engine swap like Mechatronik MSL or hole body modifications like Autoschmiede (W118.5) to little mods for every day use like intervall wipers.

I have a pagoda 230 SL completly restored, but the car has a Getrag 265 Tranny with a 20 mm spacer like fred Laufer AMG did in the 70-80s. The front sway-bar has PU-Bushings and 5mm shortend distance tube to allow the bar to insert easier. The springs are 20 % stifter and little shorter (20mm). It is a first serie 230 Sl with tubular exhaust manifold, so the sound with the stainless steel exhaust system is 300 Sl like. The radiator has a 1cm net (normal 1,5) and an oilradiatori is fitted, too. The side windows seals of the original pagoda where never water protective, so i fitted the 107 seals.

My coupe is in restauration, it has a very rare 76/27 A5 5 speed and short 3.92 Axle. Modified radiator and better AC-radiator (renault clio) ,too. It is full-option with AC, sunroof, tinted windows and ortopedic seats and heatet rear window. It was white but will be metallic red 571 with whole factory fitted (rare) 300 SE crome-stripes (black leather).
With the help of someone here it became W126 300 mm rotors and callipers at front. The rear is improved by using a airsuspension rear-axle withe antidive, modified to steelsprings (hubs welded in chassis). The D-jet had to be substitute by an MSII with an optical trigger in the distributer (36x2 wheel). I will return to steel wheels but W126 7x15 wit 205/65-15 with white-wall.
I've seen PU-bushings from Cox racing and the Olson progressive springs they look very interesting to me. The central mounting auf the rear-axle will be fitted in 60 shore (normal 45). The front axle has the 6.3 up-set with the 15mm shorter spring-leave and 12 mm lowerd mounts (not 20 mm beause of the steeringbox).All round adjustable Spax dampers. The side window seals will be better and the rear water drain of the sunroof is modified, it goes to a tube which drains in the front section of the rear wheelarche. The gearbox has to be modified in the bearings because they are not good enought in origine.

What next? My 500 E W124 will be station and handshifted next year, when the coupe is in 100% shape (now in paint shop).

Best pagodino
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Last edited by pagodino; 12-21-2009 at 05:36 PM.
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post #2 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 03:34 AM
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Vehicle: 1965 220SE sedan (finnie) with 450SE conversion, 1964 220SE coupe project, 1966 300SE coupe
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I hope this thread gets some responses Pagodino. Whilst my work is not to the standard of the companies you have mentioned, I have a few sedans and a 250Se coupe that I have in progress.
a) My daily driver is a 1963 220S finny sedan that I have put a W108 280S motor and trans into. Not too hard, just a few little things such as:
- transmission wiring is now further back and on the left
- carb auto-choke needed some wiring
- slightly shorter front tailshaft
- hybrid speedo cable
- W108 trans crossmember
- brake booster hose lengthening
I also ended up switching a W108 disc brake rear end into it to get a better gear ratio.

b) I am sticking a 450SE V8 motor (from a W116) into a 1965 220SE sedan. See Finny build-up pictures by drew56cus - Photobucket for some pics (starting at page 4 and working to page 1). Some work includes:
- welding in a bigger transmission tunnel from a W108 280SE 3.5
- using the 280SE 3.5 steering box, diff and bigger ventilated brakes
- custom handbrake mechanism to clear the engine better
- Vintage air A/C system
- currently working on a hybrid finny/W108/W116 wiring loom to make it all work
- custom dash, replacing the wood with a stainless steel checker pattern
- VDO gauges out of an Australian built 1970's Dodge truck (they have the same little concentric circles on them that the clock and coupe ones have)
W111-109-108-113 Mods-100_9880.jpg

c) I have a 1967 250Se coupe that I am fixing up too, as it was smashed by the previous owner. I am unsure of what way to go with it - just keep it stock with a nice metallic anthracite paint job and new black interior, or customise it? I got the car pretty cheap, so losing value would not be an issue for me. Some ideas I had were:
- I have never liked the wrap around rear glass - I think it interrupts the flow of the C pillar (compare it to the cabrio profile - sorry for the fuzzy pic). Maybe I should modify the roof to accept a smaller rear screen from a differnt car. Or cut the roof off entirely and make a new lower lift-off hardtop roof with a rear screen I do like.
- I would like the car to sit lower - but if you lower the rear end, the camber of the wheels goes out of whack. I was wondering if you could modify the rear crossmember that the big 'rhino horn' of the diff mounts up into. If you could raise that mount point, then the diff could move up higher whilst keeping the camber correct. Do any knowledgable engineering types have an opinion on that?
- Mercmad 6.3 reckons it would be better to weld in the whole rear end from a W123 for better handling and ability to be lowered. He is getting a coupe soon, I wonder if he will try it??
- Not a huge fan of the rear tail lights either, I think they are too small. Great on the pagoda, not so great on the bigger coupe.
- maybe do another V8 swap
- I too saw the Cox racing products and was interested in them
W111-109-108-113 Mods-mb-conv-side-.jpg

W111-109-108-113 Mods-july-2007-006.jpg

d) Just fooling around
Mucking around with roof chops, bigger fins, and splitting the front bumper to make the grille more prominent. Alas, the cost of custom glass would prevent such crazy ideas from ever bcoming reality...

W111-109-108-113 Mods-pics-026.jpg
W111-109-108-113 Mods-merc_fc-bumper_2.jpg

Cheers,
Drew in Oz

Last edited by drew56cus; 12-25-2009 at 03:39 AM. Reason: added pic
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post #3 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 04:11 AM
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Drew, you have a good imagination and lots of talent... I have also seen/read about your fine skills in the Oz forum.

Speaking of custom conversions, I especially like this:


And in a recent issue of MB Enthusiast, it was interesting to read about a Brit who modified a 123 & a 111 to host an M116 & M117 respectively.
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post #4 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Apr 2009
Vehicle: Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 coupe, pagoda 230 SL '64, 500 E W124, CE 220 Cabrio, E 320 T W211, w126 6.0 AMG
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Rear axle conversions

Well Schmid in Vienna mad a Low grill coupe with W124 rear axle, i think it is the easier and better fit to the W111 chassis.
This car has E55 engine and transmission!

In germany they are different TE/CE/E 500/560 W123, it is a relative straight fit.
The M117 and M116 are very similar, it is a pitty that the M119 is to large with his (7 cm) 4 valve heads. The M113/M112 is much more easier to fit but if you have anti polution restrictions in you country the electonic job is a hard way! More easier if you can use e free programmable EFI.

I hope of new stuff!!!!


Pagodino

P.S my 5-Speed comes from Brisbain, too!
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post #5 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 12:18 AM
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I'm a huge fan of engine swaps, but I like the look of original. Everything else is a go, in my book. There's no end of upgrades you can do, from a different drive train, to electric door locks, keyless entry, and much much more. I wouldn't think that intermittent wipers would be hard to install, as well as cruise control ... Aside from body changes and such, what are you looking at doing to yours?
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post #6 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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Date registered: Apr 2009
Vehicle: Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 coupe, pagoda 230 SL '64, 500 E W124, CE 220 Cabrio, E 320 T W211, w126 6.0 AMG
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Mods

If you see, I´ve just done several mods, interval vipers is a easy fit with a VW relais of the 80´s or Behr full relais.

Motor swaps are interesting in any case. 5-speed upgrades (I know how to do it with Getrag 265 or the orgiginal A 76/27 A4), perhabs someone used a 711 from a mini truck mercedes, it is side shifted....

Engin sweps. Well M117.960 is the easiest fit (from the 450 slc 5.0) using original 3.5 parts it will fit. After that a spacer is necessary to fit diffrent type of gear-boxes. I am very interested in modern engines too but the eletronic essay is not an easy job. Perhaps someon has fitted a M120 (possible, because it is not large as the M119 and not much longer). In germany some weeks ago they finished a W113 with 6.3 and air sospensions.

MSII, trijet or VEMS EFI are interesting things for the D-Jet cars or the in line 6-Pumps modified with a eletrical motor inside and eletronical guided (lambda controlled) like by some 300 SL in germany or Schmid in Vienna.

Suspension modifications are very interesting, I will go vor the stell springs with antidive-airsuspension( modificated to take center spring and chassis adapted in the accessory mounts- there are several prototyps from MB with that but the cost of extra 70 Marks hadn´t make it come in the serie), Pu-Bushes and 6.3 up-set,... other experiences....


If seen much in the last 20 years, but I want to see more.

Pagodino
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post #7 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
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Vehicle: Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 coupe, pagoda 230 SL '64, 500 E W124, CE 220 Cabrio, E 320 T W211, w126 6.0 AMG
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Once again

Some other mods found.
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post #8 of 162 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 08:25 AM
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Happy New Year to all!

Pagodino, did you finish modifying your hubs to accomodate the 560 brake rotors? How did you go about it?

Looking into my father's basement this Christmas I did find parts of a 6.3 chassis I had cut where the antidive system is fixed. I now have all what I need to fit it on my Coupe but I am wondering if the improvement in handling is worth all the work. I believe it is necessary together with the rear sway bar on air suspension cars, but is it justified on a spring suspension car? If I'm given the right arguments I may do it, but for now I'm wondering which way to go.

I am also very interested in knowing more about the upgrades necessary to the G76/27 transmission for it to handle more torque and power. Which bearings are to be replaced and by what?

Last edited by GGR; 01-03-2010 at 08:33 AM.
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post #9 of 162 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 11:44 PM
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[QUOTE=GGR;3907001]Looking into my father's basement this Christmas I did find parts of a 6.3 chassis I had cut where the antidive system is fixed. I now have all what I need to fit it on my Coupe but I am wondering if the improvement in handling is worth all the work.
QUOTE]


Gael, it's not going to i,prove the handling but it will keep the rear from rising during braking. The torque created during braking is transfered to the chassis and actually makes the rear squat, much like the front.

I'm still interested if anyone has done the T5 or T56 swap into one of our cars.

Near Manassas Va. '65 220S, 2006 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, '99 Volvo V70, '72 350SL 4 speed

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952. It's BRAKES not breaks. You break a bone, use brakes to stop your car. /rant

http://www.megamanual.com/index.html
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
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post #10 of 162 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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Anti-dive

Hi GGr, back in the states?
Well, when I was techinical referent to the W108-109-112 in the 80s, I was in the Mercedes archives, there was the projekt in 1968 to offer the 3.5 coupe with anti-dive but steel suspesions from the factory. The braking habits where much better but the extra-costs of 70 Marks wouldn't have them get in to series. The 300 SE W112 race cars for the track (not rallies) comes with these up-set, too. Here the rear sway-bar was used on some track to better traktion in acceleration out of the curves but have more understeer. The only real 300 SE remaining (not that one of the museum- it is a replic with sunroof) from a german professional restauration shop has no sway-bar but anti-dive.
What make the handling better are registrable shocks and shortend (5 mm) front swaybar tube to insert a little former (better with PU-Bushings).

- No, I haven't time for the hubs, had finished the anti-dive job on the chassis and the care will go to the paint shop. Next ist the gearbox with his modifications afterwards the engine withe the MSII. But I took the rotors and calipers from my home in germany with me.

Pagodino
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